TACC rough in stop-and-go traffic

[Topher]

I know your views are not concurrent with those who do a lot of driving in congested urban traffic but many people that have to drive in those conditions usually learn that you need to be on your game.

And most of them hate it. My point is that everyone would both enjoy it more and get where they are going quicker, if they drove more like a cooperative venture, less like they were in a life and death competition. Studies show this as well. You are making things more unpleasant, more dangerous, and slower for yourself. Please reconsider.

Thank you kindly.

 

[kort677]

And most of them hate it. My point is that everyone would both enjoy it more and get where they are going quicker, if they drove more like a cooperative venture, less like they were in a life and death competition. Studies show this as well. You are making things more unpleasant, more dangerous, and slower for yourself. Please reconsider.

Thank you kindly.

you could be right however that isn't the reality of the real world where you are forced to deal with people who do not share you rosy views and if you fail "go with the flow" bad things will happen.

 

[Max*]

you could be right however that isn't the reality of the real world where you are forced to deal with people who do not share you rosy views and if you fail "go with the flow" bad things will happen.

I could believe that he is right, I posted links here to someone else arguing pretty much the same point, except when it comes to alternate merge. If everyone left enough space between their car and the car in front, you can alternate merge at a much higher rate of speed and reduce congestion behind you. In addition, if even a handful of people let through more than 1 car, it'd highly reduce congestion as well.

But most people want to tail the car in front of them until the last second, and this is part of what causes the congestions.

And what "bad things will happen" if you don't go with the flow? Someone will honk at you? Someone else will cut you off? That's just silly.

Disclaimer: I drive aggressively, and don't follow almost anything I've said in this post. I know what would be better, but I'm not good at following directions .

 

[ArtInCT]

This last weekend, while on the I95 highway in stop and go traffic, a motorcycle pulled in ahead of me. I was totally surprised to see that the driver display depicted the graphic of a motorcycle ahead of me! TACC works great in stop and go as far as I am concerned.

 

[chillaban]

Why do we care about people cutting in ? I drive 880 in Fremont all the time. Cutting in may or may not involve turn signals, and is closer to cutting you off. If you don't brake for a car coming in from the side, you end up in the body shop, and caught on dashcam, probably their fault for unsafe lane change. It's not about the delay, it's sort of hi way warfare, and the Tesla is well equipped to get both in, and out of trouble. Auto steer was stable today, but it's been acting funny over the last week. TACC is pretty predictable. I got from Fremont to Hayward hands off, Autosteer and TACC except for heavy merging, but I see it coming. It does not brake soon enough for cars about to hit your right front wheel well.

Some people care because, yeah, they think stop and go traffic is a contest and a person cutting in front of you is a sign of your weakness and defeat.

I don't think that way, but my bigger problem with people cutting in is TACC/ACC systems tend to be very bad at reacting to this situation! First of all, they don't even react to cars existing as they slowly merge into your lane. Then after the car is 2/3 of the way into your lane, your car suddenly goes "OH CRAP THAT IS A CAR" and slams on the brakes.

One way to stop this from happening is to follow at a distance where others don't try to cut in, because a 1.5 car following distance is often an invitation to aggressive drivers to cut in.


Fundamentally I agree that drivers in general are way too aggressive. But unless EVERYONE becomes less aggressive, lowering your level of "aggression" doesn't necessarily make you or others around you safer.

 

[Topher]

you could be right however that isn't the reality of the real world where you are forced to deal with people who do not share you rosy views and if you fail "go with the flow" bad things will happen.

Nope. Worked fine when I drove in (what was then) the worst traffic city in the country.

But really, you would prefer to suffer, and lose time, rather than to try to improve things, and get where you are going sooner? The word for that is sado-masochism.

Thank you kindly.

 

[BriansBucketList]

Topher, I'm all for a less rushed and well coordinated flow of traffic, and I'm very familiar with traffic engineering. I used the term hiway warfare because that's what it seems like to drive here, and rush hour has expanded to an all day affair.

Do you think we should drive at the speed limit ? I'm tailgated if I do. Tesla allows me to do exactly the opposite of rushing to my destination. I've taken sever defensive driving courses. Does that make me a good driver ? No. I've never been in a freeway accident in 40 years of a 45 minute daily commute. Does that make me a good driver ? Maybe. I would argue, that I'm the guy you really do want to share the road with. When 5 lanes become 4, and there are a rush of arms on the right pretending not to notice the "merge left ahead" sign, then cut people off when they merge, how do you react ? You state that you've driven in the worst traffic in the US. Tell us more. I've driven a mile with my turn signal on (no, not by accident) only to have drivers speed up, and pretend not to see me. How do you handle that ? Miss your exit until you get lucky. Perhaps a bit more description of how you handled the nations worst traffic woul make us all better drivers. For now, you're stuck with me on the road, friend.

I never tailgate, and try to stay out of traffic clusters, and seek open road. I avoid driving in blind spots. I watch traffic several cars ahead. I simply slow down when cutoff. I don't see the current TACC and Autosteer function well when someone cuts me off, as mentioned, it catches the car too late.

I think evenly spaced smoothly flowing traffic is up there with world peace. Everybody wants it, but as miniature cities full of 3 car families are dropped into every available open space, the roads saturate. Dynamic traffic routing through a smart cruise control network could help. Look up DNHR- it's ATTs Dynamic Non Hierarchical Routing used on telephone and data networks implemented in the 80s which share similarities to round traffic, for the control of congestion if you can find it.

On topic, I would like several adjustments for how TACC stops, and one that does not accelerate into cars stopped at a light. I believe Tesla programs that behavior for maximum regen.

Thank you

 

[Max*]

When 5 lanes become 4, and there are a rush of arms on the right pretending not to notice the "merge left ahead" sign, then cut people off when they merge, how do you react ?

You mean all those people driving exactly how they should be driving and utilizing all 5 lanes for the duration that the road engineers planned the road to be utilized, and then trying to zipper merge as they should to try to reduce congestion? Yeah, those people are horrible!

http://lifehacker.com/the-right-way-to-merge-lanes-to-avoid-traffic-jams-and-1501148503

 

[chillaban]

Wow, this thread seems derailed beyond all hope…

 

[kort677]

And what "bad things will happen" if you don't go with the flow? Someone will honk at you? Someone else will cut you off? That's just silly.

Disclaimer: I drive aggressively, and don't follow almost anything I've said in this post. I know what would be better, but I'm not good at following directions .

can't even get on the same page here, imagine the 2 of us sharing a roadway?

 

[DSTAR]

It's interesting how TACC changes driving behaviors. I suspect it exaggerates whatever your driving habits are without the TACC. Either way, I agree that leaving too much room invites folks to cut in, but following too closely may, at times invite road rage. I now find myself adjusting between 1 and 4 depending on conditions, but 5 and above seems to far even in free-flowing traffic.

One way or another, gotta watch the road and be ready to take over at any time.

 

[BriansBucketList]

Back to the OP, TACC and Autosteer seem better on Freeway stop and go, , and middle lanes minimize merge issues. When I need to exit, the people who have failed to read the lifehacker article referring to zipper merges refuse to allow me to enter the zipper, even speeding up to close the gap. Topher hasn't stated how he handles that, other than general statements on how things should be. I exercise what control I can over my environment, like route choice and time of day, after I attach my "read lifehacker" bumper sticker, I expect things to improve. Bucket list out, mic drop.

 

[Topher]

Do you think we should drive at the speed limit ?

Not sure where you got that impression, but yes, we ALL should be driving at or below the speed limit. That is what 'speed limit' means. Speed limits have generally been rising, are you saying they shouldn't bother?

You state that you've driven in the worst traffic in the US.

Boston during the Big Dig was generally recognized as the worst traffic at the time. But I am not trying to one-up people, just provide my bona fides.

Either way, I agree that leaving too much room invites folks to cut in,

I want to invite people to cut in. See those morons Brian is talking about in the next quote? Those are the people who aren't inviting people to cut in.

When I need to exit, the people who have failed to read the lifehacker article referring to zipper merges refuse to allow me to enter the zipper, even speeding up to close the gap. Topher hasn't stated how he handles that

The tricks are: Be in the exit lane before people realize that it is going to be a bone of contention. Merge over when your lane is moving faster than theirs. Find someone who wants into your lane and set a pick for them, then take their spot in their lane. These all work. I could have given you more back when I was doing it every day. See what works with drivers around you.

Thank you kindly.

 

[chillaban]

The tricks are: Be in the exit lane before people realize that it is going to be a bone of contention. Merge over when your lane is moving faster than theirs. Find someone who wants into your lane and set a pick for them, then take their spot in their lane. These all work. I could have given you more back when I was doing it every day. See what works with drivers around you.

I will say two things: One, on my commute home, I see people doing this all the time. Unfortunately, I actually need to get off at one such exit that is an exit-only lane in 10 minutes of standstill traffic, and someone always goes into the empty exit lane, and waits until the very last minute and slams on the brakes trying to get back in. While otherwise I could go at 65mph on the exit lane. Yes, it only costs me 2 minutes of opportunity lost, but it nonetheless feels frustrating to human instinct. I try to make myself feel better by explaining to myself that I'm taking the high road by not getting angry about people doing this.


The other thing is, I think this is yet another case where frustrated commuters are probably causing undue stress for drivers that genuinely made a mistake. When I first moved to CA, and got stuck in Golden Gate Bridge traffic, I waited for maybe 45 minutes in the cash toll lane. I see a car zipping past me in the FastTrak-only lane and stopping shortly in front of me. I let him in, because I was new, and the guy behind me was clearly pissed off, and blasted his horn at me for a good 5 minutes before giving up. I was moments away from calling 911 because I come from Detroit and have had someone get out of their car and pull a gun out. But at any rate, once I got to the toll booth, the attendant said "the stationwagon paid your toll. He wanted to say thank you — he's from out of the country and was in the wrong lane"

Wow, that was not the outcome I expected. And I'm not sure if the person I am today, after being in this area for 5 years, would have done the same thing for this driver.