Not sure next-gens are going to help. I have the next-gens on my 6 month old 85D and I just can't find a comfortable position. They are the stiffest seats I've ever sat in, and on long drives I get neck and back pains, something I've never experienced in any previous car. When I have to drive one of my other cars, I can't believe how comfortable the seats are compared to my Tesla. I have a feeling these seats contribute to rough ride quality as well since they don't seem to absorb any impacts.
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Tesla and reliability
- Thread starter xav-
- Start date
jelloslug
Active Member
I'm going to keep mine for a long time. Whether I get the extended warranty depends on how the first 50,000 miles go...
95+% of the problems for my early-ish 2013 Model S have been squeaks and rattles. Primarily with the pano roof (which has since been fairly extensively redesigned). One door handle went bad (I had 1st gen handles that were less reliable than the current design, they updated all to current style). Rear hatch became mis-calibrated and wouldn't close 100% of the time (was really annoying to close it, have it pop back up, and then have to close again).
So basically squeaks and rattles, and an annoying hatch. Nothing serious, and nothing that prevented the car from doing it's job. But on a CR survey, or True Delta (True Selection Bias) survey, it would look terrible, because I've had so many service visits for squeaks and rattles.
So basically squeaks and rattles, and an annoying hatch. Nothing serious, and nothing that prevented the car from doing it's job. But on a CR survey, or True Delta (True Selection Bias) survey, it would look terrible, because I've had so many service visits for squeaks and rattles.
Chopr147
Active Member
I have had the same concerns as you. I cannot answer reliability issues because I have had my S for 1 day. But I did my research which includes TMC and jumped in with both feet. No issues on pick-up day and after research do not expect any in the future. This is one well made car built to last
Polls of Model S owners have shown that over 50% of Model S owners have never owned a car worth more than $60K. For some of us it's a massive step up (my Buick cost $22K new). A lot of people when they are paying significantly more for something expect quality on par with the money they are paying and will be pickier about details than they would with a cheaper car. That may be driving some of it. Most other people buying non-Tesla $100K cars have owned one or more before and know what to expect. Few of them stretched the budget to the breaking point to buy that car either.
I think it was CR noted that because Teslas are quieter by nature, people tend to hear rattles they don't notice on ICEs, so the bar for rattles and squeaks is a lot higher. After I read that I actually paid attention to the noises my old Buick made and there were a lot of little rattles and squeaks I hadn't noticed over the noises associated with the ICE (which is on the quiet side for an ICE).
Tesla is going to have to open up their service to independent people eventually. I hope they do so by the time of the Model 3 launch. It will take the legacy Model Ss out of warranty out of the service centers freeing up room for the flood of newer cars. Even if the Model 3 is the most reliable all new car design in history, there will be teething problems when they get in the hands of the public. Probably much less than the Model S and X, but they will be there. All new car designs have lower reliability, even from manufacturers renown for their quality.
I don't usually get the extended warranty, but I'm thinking about it. I am planning now to keep the car long term, but who knows, the Model S in 4 years might be as improved as the current Model Ss over the 2012s.
After having the car for a month we went back to the Tesla showroom and sat in the next gen seats. We both found them to be softer and had a better headrest than the cloth seats. The biggest issue I have with the cloth seats is the headrests lean forward about 20-30 degrees. The original leather seats were the same. Our heights when sitting down and the large void caused by the headrest angle leaves no support for the upper back and it cramps up after a while. I have found it helps to slouch a bit in the seat, but that leads to other problems on a long drive.
The Model X seats as well as the S next gen seats have pretty close to vertical headrests (they lean forward a little bit, but not as much) vs the S cloth seats. That allows the shoulder blades and upper back to make a more natural contact with the seat.
I do agree other cars have more comfortable seats. I had to move my old Buick (I haven't had the time to get it sold yet) a month after driving the Tesla and the seats in that are so luxurious by comparison. My SO has the basic seats in her Impreza and she said those are a lot more comfortable than the Tesla seats.
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
I don't know about that. I have to have a door handle fixed: is not being able to open a door being picky? Even the second gen door handles have a design defect that causes the wires to the microswitch to break (see this thread). Why was it designed like that?
Last month, I had a "needs service power limited" warning; I managed to limp home uphill, at one point down to 12 mph and less than 10 kW. I called the Tesla number and got routed to the Denver Service Center. The guy I spoke with sounded harried but promised to look at the logs and get back to me later that day, Saturday, or Monday. He blew me off and I never heard from him again. That's service? Turned out that when I turned the car on again the problem went away and hasn't returned, so far. Since I've heard mixed reports of service quality at Denver I'm taking my car to Salt Lake City for the door handle in the hope that they are less overwhelmed and easier to work with. But I guess that's being picky.
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glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
My anecdotal data point. I have just rolled over 80K miles on my 2013 S60. I declined to get the extended warranty.
Post warranty experience: Early on at around 56K miles I had a GPS antenna issue. Tesla service was fantastic (Highland Park IL), no different than the warranty experience (included a loaner). It did cost around $800 as they had to remove the rear glass which also required replacing the tail light ($300 for that). Biggest complaint is that it required about 2 weeks wait to get in. Since then, about a year later they did a proactive contactor replacement. I was also getting a slight clunk from the front end which turned out to be a sway bar link, so while they had it I had them replace both for $45each. No service whatsoever since these issues.
For me, this car has been one of my best. My Honda Civic had less issues, but lots more routine maintenance.
My thoughts on the Extend Service Agreement:
So first off, I am only speaking for myself and this my perspective on this. I am not trying to tell someone else what to do in their situation.
Some may find the ESA a useful product, if only for peace of mind. I am not one of those. I have never been a fan of so called "extended warranties" or similar. Usually these products are sold because the seller will make money on them. That means on balance it's a house always wins kind of deal. Now with a Tesla, there is certainly the potential for a large out of pocket expense, so it's not like getting an ESA on your TV, I understand that. But, in my view shelling out $4.5K is like guaranteeing a large repair is going to happen within the first 50K after the warranty. You are putting out your money no matter what. To me it's better to just set aside that $4.5K. A touch screen failure is about $3K, a major suspension issue may be between $1.5 and $3K. Door handles $1K. So the way I see it even if I have one major or minor issue I am still ahead. Big ticket items like drive unit and battery are still under warranty. Couple that with the fact that I drive over 28K miles per year. The ESA would last me less than 2 years, and after that all that money is gone regardless if I used the ESA or not. Then what. I have to sell the car after 100K miles? No way, that's BS. If I just set aside the $4.5K it's still there to back up any repair costs regardless of how many miles I put on. So far this plan has been working out. However, if my pre-50K mile experience was fraught with lots of repair and consternation, I just would have bailed out on the car before expiry anyway.
Post warranty experience: Early on at around 56K miles I had a GPS antenna issue. Tesla service was fantastic (Highland Park IL), no different than the warranty experience (included a loaner). It did cost around $800 as they had to remove the rear glass which also required replacing the tail light ($300 for that). Biggest complaint is that it required about 2 weeks wait to get in. Since then, about a year later they did a proactive contactor replacement. I was also getting a slight clunk from the front end which turned out to be a sway bar link, so while they had it I had them replace both for $45each. No service whatsoever since these issues.
For me, this car has been one of my best. My Honda Civic had less issues, but lots more routine maintenance.
My thoughts on the Extend Service Agreement:
So first off, I am only speaking for myself and this my perspective on this. I am not trying to tell someone else what to do in their situation.
Some may find the ESA a useful product, if only for peace of mind. I am not one of those. I have never been a fan of so called "extended warranties" or similar. Usually these products are sold because the seller will make money on them. That means on balance it's a house always wins kind of deal. Now with a Tesla, there is certainly the potential for a large out of pocket expense, so it's not like getting an ESA on your TV, I understand that. But, in my view shelling out $4.5K is like guaranteeing a large repair is going to happen within the first 50K after the warranty. You are putting out your money no matter what. To me it's better to just set aside that $4.5K. A touch screen failure is about $3K, a major suspension issue may be between $1.5 and $3K. Door handles $1K. So the way I see it even if I have one major or minor issue I am still ahead. Big ticket items like drive unit and battery are still under warranty. Couple that with the fact that I drive over 28K miles per year. The ESA would last me less than 2 years, and after that all that money is gone regardless if I used the ESA or not. Then what. I have to sell the car after 100K miles? No way, that's BS. If I just set aside the $4.5K it's still there to back up any repair costs regardless of how many miles I put on. So far this plan has been working out. However, if my pre-50K mile experience was fraught with lots of repair and consternation, I just would have bailed out on the car before expiry anyway.
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thegruf
Active Member
Generally when I'm considering reliability my main concern is whether or not the car is constantly breaking down. For example, engine problems, transmission problems, etc. The things that prevent the vehicle from performing it's core function of transportation. In this sense, the Model S is extremely reliable. Even with the milling sound in the old drive units, they generally don't fail completely. Very rarely will you see stories of someone stranded for whatever reason.
My experience has been that Tesla is lacking in the normal car things that aren't unique to an electric vehicle which I think is a good sign because they're using off the shelf OE suppliers and that stuff is easy to address. I put exponentially more importance on the reliability of the drivetrain than I do the door handles though. Unfortunately most of these sites don't parse out the info like that. They just tell you the car is reliable or it's not. This is why so many Fords were absolutely pummeled by Consumer Reports. It wasn't that they were bad cars. It's that everyone hated MyFordTouch which resulted in the cars having poor overall ratings.
My experience has been that Tesla is lacking in the normal car things that aren't unique to an electric vehicle which I think is a good sign because they're using off the shelf OE suppliers and that stuff is easy to address. I put exponentially more importance on the reliability of the drivetrain than I do the door handles though. Unfortunately most of these sites don't parse out the info like that. They just tell you the car is reliable or it's not. This is why so many Fords were absolutely pummeled by Consumer Reports. It wasn't that they were bad cars. It's that everyone hated MyFordTouch which resulted in the cars having poor overall ratings.
My model S is now one year old.
Other than the seatbelt-related inspection visit that lasted 15-minutes, I did not need to visit the service center until the annual visit.
At that time, they swapped my battery for a loaner pack, so they could send the battery for repair to the factory.
So thus far in the first year and ~20K miles, I have had a single minor issue with battery that reduced max range by 10-15 miles.
When I was researching the Model S prior to the purchase, I observed that Consumer Reports rated Tesla's reliability as Average. I was prepared for the car being less reliable in the long-run, compared to our other car which was rated as Much Better than Average.
Other than the seatbelt-related inspection visit that lasted 15-minutes, I did not need to visit the service center until the annual visit.
At that time, they swapped my battery for a loaner pack, so they could send the battery for repair to the factory.
So thus far in the first year and ~20K miles, I have had a single minor issue with battery that reduced max range by 10-15 miles.
When I was researching the Model S prior to the purchase, I observed that Consumer Reports rated Tesla's reliability as Average. I was prepared for the car being less reliable in the long-run, compared to our other car which was rated as Much Better than Average.
I didn't say all people who complained are being picky. I have seen people here on this forum going on about minor blemishes in the paint like the door fell off on the freeway.
People have had quite legitimate issues, especially with the early cars. The door handles are an engineering weak point with the car. They are a "gee whiz" thing that impresses people, especially when they see the car for the first time, but Tesla has shown there are better ways to do aerodynamic door handles on the X and the M3.
It sounds like you have a car with some real problems that need to be addressed.
