Tesla banned me from purchasing another Tesla after vehicle buyback

[r1200gs4ok]

Ahhh...... today I learned what ellipsis are . Whoops, I mean

Ahh, today I learned what ellipsis are

ahh today......you learned......what ellipsis are........whoopee doo

 

[Rogue Synapse]

... ellipses are

 

[FlatSix911]

Really? I haven't seen anyone report that yet.

No, it hasn't. If you can point to one case of someone having a successful UV treatment reporting the problem returning and getting charged for the treatment, I'll eat my hat.

The truth will set you free... where should we send your hat? ​

A high ranking service tech also confirmed that the issue has come back to some screens. It has to do with heat and UV on the silicon material that they use between the glass touch screen and the LCD to bond the two together. We do a similar bonding process on our outdoor LCD displays, but it has taken many years of improvements to our formula to avoid any discoloration or degradation. The process that Tesla has used to reduce or eliminate the yellowing was quite novel, but it is only a temporary fix to the underlying cause. If the display is subjected to the same conditions, the yellowing will return.

 

[ucmndd]

The truth will set you free... where should we send your hat? ​

You’re gonna have to do a little better than fourth-hand info. Show me a customer. There are thousands of people bitching on here every day, if this was happening, we’d know about it by now.

 

[whitex]

The yellow screen problem is cosmetic at best... not sure if that should be covered under warranty or not, but it is at least borderline.

What does that mean "cosmetic at best"? Pealing paint is cosmetic, so borderline for warranty too as long as the body panel is aluminum so it doesn't rust? If it's caused by manufacturing defect and depreciates the car, it should absolutely be covered.

 

[wemetzger]

What does that mean "cosmetic at best"? Pealing paint is cosmetic, so borderline for warranty too as long as the body panel is aluminum so it doesn't rust? If it's caused by manufacturing defect and depreciates the car, it should absolutely be covered.

The plastic in your car also fades color, and that is normal wear and tear. But yeah, I do agree with you.

 

[HighZ]

You’re gonna have to do a little better than fourth-hand info. Show me a customer. There are thousands of people bitching on here every day, if this was happening, we’d know about it by now.

A few clarifications after more research by my materials engineers, and keep in mind that without knowing the exact materials or process used, it is a SWAG, but they are pretty smart. The issue seems to be a UV cure issue on the perimeter bond between the touch screen and the LCD. The material is most likely an acrylic that requires the UV to turn it from a more liquid state to a solid.

There are two potential causes, one being that over time, the photoinitiators in the acrylic adhesive are reactuating and causing the yellowing, so going through a re-cure process will remove the yellow. Whether or not they return may not be known for a while. If it took a few years to yellow, it may take equally as long. Also, environmental conditions will play a big part. If the cause was created by high levels of sunlight on the display, then using shades may prevent future yellowing.

Another potential cause is that during production, the screen was under-cured. There have been a few cases they found where bonding liquid was seeping from the screens, which would indicate an extreme under-cure. If that were the case, and the screens were cured fully at the service center, perhaps the issue would not occur again. This cause is more likely if quality control in the factory is suspect. What materials were used in production would be key.

Tesla is saying that this issue was resolved going forward with new vehicles, so they may have changed their production process and/or materials such as adding an agent to prevent yellowing.

Here is an interesting video of someone who tried to do his own UV cure unsuccessfully before the SC fix was released. The issue of why his first test didn't work would be more related to scatter or reflection of the UV (vs. having it right up against the screen) and using the specific wavelength needed by the specific acrylic used.

This post from July 2019 is probably well-publicized here on the forum but had some information new at least to me about the initial communication about the UV fix, length of time for the cure, and that long-term data is needed to see if it will last.

 

[ucmndd]

A few clarifications after more research by my materials engineers, and keep in mind that without knowing the exact materials or process used, it is a SWAG, but they are pretty smart. The issue seems to be a UV cure issue on the perimeter bond between the touch screen and the LCD. The material is most likely an acrylic that requires the UV to turn it from a more liquid state to a solid.

There are two potential causes, one being that over time, the photoinitiators in the acrylic adhesive are reactuating and causing the yellowing, so going through a re-cure process will remove the yellow. Whether or not they return may not be known for a while. If it took a few years to yellow, it may take equally as long. Also, environmental conditions will play a big part. If the cause was created by high levels of sunlight on the display, then using shades may prevent future yellowing.

Another potential cause is that during production, the screen was under-cured. There have been a few cases they found where bonding liquid was seeping from the screens, which would indicate an extreme under-cure. If that were the case, and the screens were cured fully at the service center, perhaps the issue would not occur again. This cause is more likely if quality control in the factory is suspect. What materials were used in production would be key.

Tesla is saying that this issue was resolved going forward with new vehicles, so they may have changed their production process and/or materials such as adding an agent to prevent yellowing.

Here is an interesting video of someone who tried to do his own UV cure unsuccessfully before the SC fix was released. The issue of why his first test didn't work would be more related to scatter or reflection of the UV (vs. having it right up against the screen) and using the specific wavelength needed by the specific acrylic used.

This post from July 2019 is probably well-publicized here on the forum but had some information new at least to me about the initial communication about the UV fix, length of time for the cure, and that long-term data is needed to see if it will last.

Good analysis.

In case you haven't seen it, my personal experience with a DIY UV treatment is detailed here:

DIY UV Treatment for Yellowed MCU Screen

 

[whitex]

The plastic in your car also fades color, and that is normal wear and tear. But yeah, I do agree with you.

I think time is relevant here. All cars eventually rust and fall apart due to wear and tear, but if that happens during warranty, it's covered. All batteries eventually die too due to wear, but if that happens during warranty, it's covered (at least it should be, Tesla just lowered their acceptable % degradation to 70% from previous 80%). If plastics in the car faded in 6 months, that should be covered too. Even tires, an obvious wearable item, have warranty, assuming typical usage. Screen yellows during warranty under typical usage, so it should be covered.

 

[FlatSix911]

A high ranking service tech also confirmed that the issue has come back to some screens. It has to do with heat and UV on the silicon material that they use between the glass touch screen and the LCD to bond the two together. We do a similar bonding process on our outdoor LCD displays, but it has taken many years of improvements to our formula to avoid any discoloration or degradation.

The process that Tesla has used to reduce or eliminate the yellowing was quite novel, but it is only a temporary fix to the underlying cause. If the display is subjected to the same conditions, the yellowing will return.

You’re gonna have to do a little better than fourth-hand info. Show me a customer.
There are thousands of people bitching on here every day, if this was happening, we’d know about it by now.

The evidence has been clearly provided by a Tesla service tech... are you also a climate denier?

 

[Reeler]

I heard the OP will not be able to go to Mars or ride in a Boring tunnel. Forget about solar too.

 

[ucmndd]

The evidence has been clearly provided by a Tesla service tech... are you also a climate denier?

No. All I require is evidence to change my mind about basically anything.

4th hand information on the internet is no more “evidence” than “” is a proper way to end every sentence one writes.

You stated definitively that “the UV treatment has proven to be temporary in many cases”. You made this up. It’s that simple.

 

[FlatSix911]

No. All I require is evidence to change my mind about basically anything.
4th hand information on the internet is no more “evidence” than “” is a proper way to end every sentence one writes.
You stated definitively that “the UV treatment has proven to be temporary in many cases”. You made this up. It’s that simple.

No. You are just ignoring the evidence... It’s that simple.

 

[dannycamps]

No. All I require is evidence to change my mind about basically anything.

4th hand information on the internet is no more “evidence” than “” is a proper way to end every sentence one writes.

You stated definitively that “the UV treatment has proven to be temporary in many cases”. You made this up. It’s that simple.

"Quotes found on the internet must be taken with a grain of salt." -Abraham Lincoln

 

[testhrowaway]

When I read that he was interacting with Tesla's lawyer, that was a huge red flag. Sounds like the interaction with Tesla wasn't as innocent as being presented here, perhaps he threatened to sue them.

When you go into buyback or arbitration territory you automatically start dealing with their lawyers. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sorry all - I wasn't getting the email notifications on this thread (my fault).

Anyway, we ended up getting the etron which turns out to have significantly higher build quality, along with plenty of other features the Tesla should really have at its cost. The biggest two concerns I had with going outside of tesla: no autopilot and electric vehicle are easily assuaged here. Their traffic Jam Assist is quite good and can handle 95% of what autopilot can today.

Regardless, I'm done with Tesla. I get their viewpoint on banning, however, it still boils down to banning a customer for standing up for themselves. I've since spoken with others that have been banned, and it always seems to revolve around customers that know their rights.

There were legitimate problems, nothing was falsified or made up.

(as a side note, they also incorrectly registered the car after the buyback, which is requiring me to get back in contact with both them and the dmv to get it corrected)

 

[Clemi]

Many of you know me from this thread: Yellow screen? Force Tesla to Replace it!. In the thread I state very clearly and factually the process I went though to get Tesla to replace my yellowing Model S screen. Nothing I posted was covered under any NDAs. I simply wanted to make sure everyone was aware what the NCDS process looked like as an option to combat warranty denials over the screen. The NCDS procedure I documented there has been invaluable to many customers both on these forums and off.

It turns out, Tesla has banned me from purchasing another vehicle for posting online.

How I found out:

Several months after the yellow screen incident, I contacted the lawyer from Tesla I had been working with.(I will not state his name here, others have stated it in the linked thread) The Model S had a worsening problem with reduced battery life. Averaging ~330KW/h we were only getting about 70-80% of what we should have. On a full 100% charge we would get somewhere in the range of 170-200 miles.

The service centers would not acknowledge the problem. In fact, I could not even get them to write up a service ticket. So, I went to the lawyer at Tesla. I informed him of the problem, and he referred it to an internal engineering department. I was contacted back a couple weeks later (after having to prod for a response)

The engineer informed me that I had an API requesting tool (TeslaFi) constantly hitting my car, and that was the reason for reduced capacity. He recommended changing my password to block the API requests. I thought this sounded odd, but figured it did not hurt to try.

This did not make a difference. I reached back out to the lawyer and got a response of "What do you want me to do?". I informed him I just wanted it fixed. The response I got back was asking me if I wanted to just do a buyback on the vehicle. At first, I baulked at this. I really did love that car, aside from the screen issue (which was ultimately fixed), and now the battery problem.

Ultimately, I decided that this was a good idea. It would allow me to get out of the battery problem, and get a brand new Model S Performance. The offer was at $68,024.75. This is 60-70% over KBB value, it was calculated by the the full price I paid including taxes, fees, etc ($99,563.63) - mileage deduction (-$31,538.88 calculated as $96750 x 39,118miles/120,000).

We placed a deposit on a brand new Performance S to replace it with about two weeks before we had to surrender the car to the Burlingame service center. The day after we provided the car to them and signed all of the documentation we received a phone call from the sales manager at Burlingame. I was told that they would refuse to sell me another vehicle and he refused to provide any more information and simply cancelled the order.

I emailed the lawyer, sure that this was a mistake. I thought that maybe the manager saw there was a buyback and decided that I should not buy another vehicle. The response I got back from Telsa's lawyer was:

"
We aren’t obligated to sell you a car and we don’t believe selling you another car is in either of our interests. You’ve been repeatedly frustrated despite our best efforts and we are not inclined to continue doing business with someone we don’t believe we can satisfy such that they resort to threats repeatedly and/or disparaging us publicly. You ought to consider another EV or other vehicle and perhaps you’ll have a better relationship with their service team. "

This came as quite a shock. I can only assume that the "threats" he was referring to was being willing to file another arbitration case to get the battery issues fixed and that the "disparaging" them publicly was the yellow screen NCDS thread.

During the process, he said they hoped I would go with a different manufacturer for my next vehicle, but never said I could not purchase from them. It turns out, the "hope" was more of a "it will not be possible to buy another vehicle from us".

I tried a few more times to place the order, but it was always ultimately cancelled. We finally gave up on trying to purchase another Tesla, and opted to place an order for a Porsche Taycan.

After this situation I reached out to a few contacts and found that I am not the only one that Tesla has banned for having arbitration / lemon claims. I can't speak for those other (former) owners but It seems that this is a strategy that Tesla legal employs with at least some regular cadence.



I've attached the buy-back paperwork for my vehicle (VIN: 5YJSA1E14HF193196) for any that would like to see what it looks like

Elon, as a customer, would certainly NOT tolerate that kind of BS from any manufacturer, so why do they treat us like Sh.... ?

 

[dduffey]

This is an old thread I hope OP follows up.

Sounds like his purchase for the Porche Taycan also did not go well. How has the e-Tron performed and Audi service? Genuinely curious. The e-Tron has worse efficiency than the original Tesla complaint.

Audi E-Tron Disappoints On Energy Consumption: Places Last Among EVs

Audi e-tron's EPA range (204 miles) and energy consumption (455 Wh/mile) results are worse than anticipated. How will it affect sales?

insideevs.com

I think Tesla did the right thing here. It would have been nice to know they weren't just asking you to buy somewhere else but telling you to with a little more heads up.

At the end of the day it sounds like you could have still backed out and kept the car if you wanted and it was your decision to still turn it in. They replaced your screen and they gave you an amazing offer that most could only dream of.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

@ucmndd beat me to the punch, I was going to say the same. You aren’t the first one to be banned from buying another tesla and you most likely will not be the last.

Wanna get banned from buying a Ferrari?

Just sell one for less than the company thinks you should be selling it for.

 

[FlatSix911]

Wanna get banned from buying a Ferrari?

Just sell one for less than the company thinks you should be selling it for.

Sad, but true... they also will only sell limited edition cars to special customers who commit to buy additional Ferraris.

 

[Yanniz]

This is an old thread I hope OP follows up.

Sounds like his purchase for the Porche Taycan also did not go well. How has the e-Tron performed and Audi service? Genuinely curious. The e-Tron has worse efficiency than the original Tesla complaint.

Audi E-Tron Disappoints On Energy Consumption: Places Last Among EVs

Audi e-tron's EPA range (204 miles) and energy consumption (455 Wh/mile) results are worse than anticipated. How will it affect sales?

insideevs.com

I think Tesla did the right thing here. It would have been nice to know they weren't just asking you to buy somewhere else but telling you to with a little more heads up.

At the end of the day it sounds like you could have still backed out and kept the car if you wanted and it was your decision to still turn it in. They replaced your screen and they gave you an amazing offer that most could only dream of.

I agree, Tesla did the right thing, good for them . He moved on to other cars, hope he’s happy, it all worked out