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Tesla banned me from purchasing another Tesla after vehicle buyback

wemetzger

Member
Jul 16, 2018
71
52
San Carlos, CA
My two cents is that neither case is a clear warranty case, and he fought overly hard to get Tesla to bend to his will, and sought to damage the company via online postings.. not just let customers be aware of the process as he initially posted. The yellow screen problem is cosmetic at best... not sure if that should be covered under warranty or not, but it is at least borderline. After getting that fixed, he went on to start a campaign to complain about a non existent battery degradation problem. All batteries degrade. All cars lose efficiency. EPA range is different than real world range. Nothing that he posted makes me think there was a real problem here. If I were Tesla and this guy started complaining and campaigning over a non issue, I would have done a buy back and ban as well. I'm ok with the him complaining about the yellow screen (even though I would have handled it differently, he must have more time than I), but the degradation case has no merit and crossed the line.
 
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Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,584
7,385
Visalia, CA
...All batteries degrade...the degradation case has no merit and crossed the line

That is not what the Tesla engineer explained in this thread: It was explained that TeslaFi is the cause. If you change TeslaFi's password so it can no long access the car log anymore, the problem is fixed!

Degradation is a very popular concern.

It is a concern that even NHTSA gets involved and investigating the software update that results in a drop off in range.

It is also a concern from Tesla that as of 1/29/2020, Tesla has revised its Model S and Model X from no numerical degradation warranty to a specific 70% capacity guarantee.
 

wemetzger

Member
Jul 16, 2018
71
52
San Carlos, CA
The Tesla engineer said TeslaFi was partly to blame for energy use and once it was turned off it should help. I have no reason to believe this was not true, and that it did help (minimally) when it turned off. The guy isnt even saying that the battery has degraded 20-30%. He is saying that real world miles is 20-30% less than EPA range. So, real world is obviously less than EPA range, so I see this as a non problem. Now, lets say, battery degradation was really 30%, and I am just reading what he wrote incorrectly. First, his contract has no numerical degradation, so even if his battery is under 50%, it is my understanding of the law that this could be seen as normal degeneration. Which is what the warranty covered/not covered in a time when there were huge questions about battery life at the time he bought the car. As soon as Tesla started putting into teh warranty that it covers 70%, this was a win for consumers to get some level of protection. Even with this protection being back dated to his car (no reason it should be), and even assuming the battery degradation was 30%, then he STILL DOES NOT qualify for a warranty repair. That is a lot of if's to be threatening a lawsuit.
 
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Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,584
7,385
Visalia, CA
The Tesla engineer said TeslaFi was partly to blame for energy use and once it was turned off it should help. I have no reason to believe this was not true, and that it did help (minimally) when it turned off. The guy isnt even saying that the battery has degraded 20-30%. He is saying that real world miles is 20-30% less than EPA range. So, real world is obviously less than EPA range, so I see this as a non problem. Now, lets say, battery degradation was really 30%, and I am just reading what he wrote incorrectly. First, his contract has no numerical degradation, so even if his battery is under 50%, it is my understanding of the law that this could be seen as normal degeneration. Which is what the warranty covered/not covered in a time when there were huge questions about battery life at the time he bought the car. As soon as Tesla started putting into teh warranty that it covers 70%, this was a win for consumers to get some level of protection. Even with this protection being back dated to his car (no reason it should be), and even assuming the battery degradation was 30%, then he STILL DOES NOT qualify for a warranty repair. That is a lot of if's to be threatening a lawsuit.

I think we are talking about the same thing: Tesla should not beat around the bush by giving Teslafi as an answer. Instead, it should have shown the readout of the battery status with the voltages of all those cells to prove that there's no cause for degradation concern.

I also agree that Tesla engineer should have educated the EPA and real-world discrepancies and factors for degradation and whether those are relevant in this case.

But Tesla chose the buy-out agreement rather than consumer education!

The lesson here is: The consumers want the facts but Tesla wants a quick legal way out.
 
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wemetzger

Member
Jul 16, 2018
71
52
San Carlos, CA
I think we are talking about the same thing: Tesla should not beat around the bush by giving Teslafi as an answer. Instead, it should have shown the readout of the battery status with the voltages of all those cells to prove that there's no cause for degradation concern.

Yes, agree Tesla should not beat around the bush. I'm not in total agreement that it would be best for Tesla to release that much information. At least at this time. And I am also not in agreement that Tesla did not at least try consumer education at first... we don't know all the back and forth.
 

Jack007

Member
Oct 17, 2016
189
143
Calgary AB
The exact situation you describe is not legal. It’s fraud.
There is NO law that says you can't sell a car after you buy it. You bought it, it is YOURS to do with as you please. However to reregister, and many states will tax you AGAIN on the bluebook value or what you paid, whatever is higher. Just buy a used one from someone like someone else suggested earlier.
 

croman

Active Member
Nov 21, 2016
4,651
6,592
Chicago, IL
My two cents is that neither case is a clear warranty case, and he fought overly hard to get Tesla to bend to his will, and sought to damage the company via online postings.. not just let customers be aware of the process as he initially posted. The yellow screen problem is cosmetic at best... not sure if that should be covered under warranty or not, but it is at least borderline. After getting that fixed, he went on to start a campaign to complain about a non existent battery degradation problem. All batteries degrade. All cars lose efficiency. EPA range is different than real world range. Nothing that he posted makes me think there was a real problem here. If I were Tesla and this guy started complaining and campaigning over a non issue, I would have done a buy back and ban as well. I'm ok with the him complaining about the yellow screen (even though I would have handled it differently, he must have more time than I), but the degradation case has no merit and crossed the line.

How is the yellow screen not warranty? It is a screen. Its function is to accurately display things. Would you be cool with a yellow windshield? How about leather that makes you sick from fumes?

No, its not cosmetic and that's not how the warranty terms apply (clearly its a failure in workmanship like the other examples I gave).

The OP was extremely helpful to the community in taking a stand. Largely because of his efforts many affected customers were able to have a solution to this issue (UV treatment). Tesla was sporadically replacing screens but by late 2018 they were doing nothing and it is a stain on them (yellow, sure). I don't care for the rest but I want to keep the record straight because Tesla isn't smelling like roses.
 

wemetzger

Member
Jul 16, 2018
71
52
San Carlos, CA
How is the yellow screen not warranty? It is a screen. Its function is to accurately display things. Would you be cool with a yellow windshield? How about leather that makes you sick from fumes?

I agree with you, I think the yellow screen is warranty. I am just saying it is borderline. Discoloration in many of the other car parts would not be warranty in my opinion, so the only reason I change my mind for screen is because this isn't typical for most screens. My point was I left the train once he started complaining about the battery degradation and seemed to actively trying to damage Tesla (specifically for non issues like his battery).

Consider the record straight for yellow screens.
 

Chaserr

Hyperactive Hyperdrive
Sep 5, 2017
2,658
5,582
Logan
That is not what the Tesla engineer explained in this thread: It was explained that TeslaFi is the cause. If you change TeslaFi's password so it can no long access the car log anymore, the problem is fixed!

Degradation is a very popular concern.

It is a concern that even NHTSA gets involved and investigating the software update that results in a drop off in range.

It is also a concern from Tesla that as of 1/29/2020, Tesla has revised its Model S and Model X from no numerical degradation warranty to a specific 70% capacity guarantee.
The guarantee is a good thing, but there is a problem in that 2020 update to the warranty that says Tesla can reduce 30% with a software update at any time. They are claiming they can downgrade the range of a new Long Range car to 261 miles any time they feel like it.
 

wemetzger

Member
Jul 16, 2018
71
52
San Carlos, CA
The guarantee is a good thing, but there is a problem in that 2020 update to the warranty that says Tesla can reduce 30% with a software update at any time. They are claiming they can downgrade the range of a new Long Range car to 261 miles any time they feel like it.
Why is that a bad thing? You would assume they do it for the health of the battery. And they can also increase it as well. As a buyer of used Teslas, I vote they have as much control as possible, and the consumer has the least :) To a point anyways.
 

Chaserr

Hyperactive Hyperdrive
Sep 5, 2017
2,658
5,582
Logan
261 miles is hardly "Long Range" in Tesla terms today - it's less than a 2012 was and that's all they are claiming. The rest is a maybe - I'm not buying that. If it was a degradation warranty, it would be a good thing but if since it is an excuse to downgrade for no reason: hard pass no thank you forever. The warranty always covered unhealthy batteries - the fact that they changed it so they won't bother to warranty unhealthy batteries is a bigger issue to me.
 

SMAlset

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2017
9,013
9,729
SF Bay Area
Thanks for the catch. New images are on this post

Yep, we ended up opting for a Porsche. Just waiting on it to be built. Its fascinating going from the Tesla to the Porsche. The only thing we are going to miss is Autopilot, but to be honest, most manufacturers have come a LONG way in their self-driving and Porsche Innodrive will handle the majority of highway driving, which is the main areas we use Autopilot.

I’m not at all surprised given what you’ve described in your initial post on the background to this. I do tend to agree with a company policy like that. Hope you enjoy your Taycan more than your Tesla. However I’d bet that Porsche and any other car manufacturer would handle in a similar fashion.
 

wemetzger

Member
Jul 16, 2018
71
52
San Carlos, CA
Yeah, I get your viewpoint. 261 is not what you initially paid for. But the bottom line is if Tesla lowers the available battery range to greatly extend battery life, and company B lets you do whatever you want to the battery, then Tesla wins, and company B goes out of business (or at least has a far greater consumer perception problem). Whether Tesla handles this extra responsibility in the right way, and makes the right decision with it is another question (ie, if you think they will downgrade you for no reason), but they have to at least set the expectation that they might need to do it, and they have to reserve the right for it.
Tesla lowered the super-charging rates on one of my Teslas. Am I happy with it? No. Does my older car now have less utility? Yes. If I was just an owner that has a high probability of trying a different kind of car next time, I would definitely be angrier than I was. But as an investor, I believe they are making the right decision. And as a future used Tesla car buyer, they made the right decision. If Tesla wants to continue to exist, they are making the right decision.
 

HighZ

MDNT SLV M3
Apr 30, 2019
191
198
Rockford, IL
My service center told me they will charge me $13.50 exactly if it ever comes back. That's apparently the cost in their system.

A high ranking service tech also confirmed that the issue has come back to some screens. It has to do with heat and UV on the silicon material that they use between the glass touch screen and the LCD to bond the two together. We do a similar bonding process on our outdoor LCD displays, but it has taken many years of improvements to our formula to avoid any discoloration or degradation. The process that Tesla has used to reduce or eliminate the yellowing was quite novel, but it is only a temporary fix to the underlying cause. If the display is subjected to the same conditions, the yellowing will return.
 

r1200gs4ok

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
1,359
457
Irvine
A high ranking service tech also confirmed that the issue has come back to some screens. It has to do with heat and UV on the silicon material that they use between the glass touch screen and the LCD to bond the two together. We do a similar bonding process on our outdoor LCD displays, but it has taken many years of improvements to our formula to avoid any discoloration or degradation. The process that Tesla has used to reduce or eliminate the yellowing was quite novel, but it is only a temporary fix to the underlying cause. If the display is subjected to the same conditions, the yellowing will return.
this sounds like a good issue that Tesla should put under their continuous improvement program to solve and get a real fix......
 

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