Yeah, Manchin doesn't care if you drive an EV as long as you charge it with electricity from a coal-fired power plant.It looks like the Clean Electricity Program might need to be cut from the bill but EV tax credit incentives seem to still be included.
"As a result, White House staffers are scrambling to calculate the impact on emissions from other climate measures in the bill, including tax incentives for renewable energy producers and tax credits for consumers who purchase electric vehicles.
Key to Biden’s Climate Agenda Likely to Be Cut Because of Manchin Opposition (Published 2021)
The West Virginia Democrat told the White House he is firmly against a clean electricity program that is the muscle behind the president’s plan to battle climate change.www.nytimes.com
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?
- Thread starter hnguy054
- Start date
I don't care either. EV will not survive without fossil fuel powered or nuclear powered power plants.
Saw this as well. I think the EV rebate program will be one thing that gets cut or reduced drastically. My order on hold till 12/31 but I am thinking I might as well wait for the first 2022 Model Y to appear and release the hold. Senate back in session for 3 weeks - we should see some movement on the bill.It looks like the Clean Electricity Program might need to be cut from the bill but EV tax credit incentives seem to still be included.
"As a result, White House staffers are scrambling to calculate the impact on emissions from other climate measures in the bill, including tax incentives for renewable energy producers and tax credits for consumers who purchase electric vehicles.
Key to Biden’s Climate Agenda Likely to Be Cut Because of Manchin Opposition (Published 2021)
The West Virginia Democrat told the White House he is firmly against a clean electricity program that is the muscle behind the president’s plan to battle climate change.
From the NYT article:
"But, analysts say, while those spending programs will help make it easier and cheaper for the U.S. economy to transition to a lower-emissions future, they are unlikely to lead to the same kind of rapid reduction in emissions that the clean electricity program would have.
“To clean up the electricity system as rapidly as possible, you need an incentive to add clean energy, and a penalty that is a disincentive for dirty sources of energy, ” Mr. Victor said. “A carrot and stick. These tax incentives are carrots. But there’s no more stick.”"
As much as I'd love a $7500 government handout that I actually don't particularly need, and feel most buyers of a new $60k probably don't either, it's not nearly as important as the "stick" components of the energy package. Too bad special interests have completely contaminated our representative government, and peculiarities of how votes get passed allow a single holdout with financial ties to big coal to jam up important legislation without gutting it.
"But, analysts say, while those spending programs will help make it easier and cheaper for the U.S. economy to transition to a lower-emissions future, they are unlikely to lead to the same kind of rapid reduction in emissions that the clean electricity program would have.
“To clean up the electricity system as rapidly as possible, you need an incentive to add clean energy, and a penalty that is a disincentive for dirty sources of energy, ” Mr. Victor said. “A carrot and stick. These tax incentives are carrots. But there’s no more stick.”"
As much as I'd love a $7500 government handout that I actually don't particularly need, and feel most buyers of a new $60k probably don't either, it's not nearly as important as the "stick" components of the energy package. Too bad special interests have completely contaminated our representative government, and peculiarities of how votes get passed allow a single holdout with financial ties to big coal to jam up important legislation without gutting it.
You're right. We definitely shouldn't incentivize a move to sustainable energy like CEPP would do.
I agree with you the government doesn’t need to do it. In fact I’d even prefer if they didn’t (and spent it on something more impactful), and yeah, I don’t *need* another $7500 handout, but I don’t know anyone who doesn’t think that’s not a lot of money — and if the government decides to start giving handouts to people who buy the same Model Y I just got a VIN for a few weeks after I take delivery, I’m gonna be unhappy, as I imagine anyone else would be.
Also, it’s not just the initial difference in getting the rebate vs not getting it, it’s that when you go to sell it the rebate will be factored into the price, so you’re getting slammed on both ends.
My wife has been eagerly awaiting this car since May, but I’m worried about taking a 10-20% hit on its value above normal depreciation. The government has left us between a rock and a hard place here.
Tesla Model 3 Demographics: Who Buys Model 3s by Age, Income:
Tesla Model 3 owners have a median age of 46 and annual income of over $128,000. Learn more demographics about Tesla Model 3 owners.
hedgescompany.com
Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020
This report presents data on income, earnings, income inequality & poverty in the United States based on information collected in the 2021 and earlier CPS ASEC.
www.census.gov
Are You Well-Paid? Compare Your Salary to the Average U.S. Income | The Motley Fool
What's the average salary in the U.S.? What's the median income for men and women? Which professions make the most? Read on to find out what the research says.
www.fool.com
Median US household income is $67xxx , average is $87xxx. The average Model 3 buyers income is $125xxxx. Assuming these represent the "poorest" Tesla buyers, I really have a hard time believing they need a $7500 government incentive to purchase an EV. I'd be more in favor if the incentive phases out at certain income levels , and phasing it out entirely when the vehicle hits a price point that is way above the average new car price. Examples - Model S and Model X.
Look, I like money as much as the next person and you're right, $7500 is a nice chunk. But I also pay a boat load of taxes, and would absolutely prefer to see them go into efforts that generate more positive lift for the environment and/or society at large than just give me a big refund and a bunch of other people making 50%+ more than the average US Household, when filing in 2023.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
All Tesla EV's help the environment and should be eligible for rebates... no social engineering is needed.
I actually don't agree. Tesla is making an enormous amount of profit selling energy credits to dirty polluters. These energy credits are paid by, wait for it, our tax dollars. Additional tax rebates / incentives for Tesla buyers is not really helping push the next tier of Americans (income bracket wise) we need to migrate off ICE vehicles.
Again, as much as I'd love some of my tax dollars back, the optics and sanity of this are a bit wonky with a blanket credit irrespective of vehicle cost and income bracket IMHO.
Energy credits are paid by other manufacturers. Tax credits for buyers of EVs (including Teslas) certainly do incentivize move away from ICE cars, no matter the income of the buyers. I would agree that incentives to buy very low volume very high priced EVs is less important, but the volume cost is low and it does help the move from those big luxury ICE cars.
Yep, bit of a derp on my part re: polluters / other manufacturers are footing the bill. There is surely a transitive cost passed on to consumers but it's not a direct line from my federal / state / local taxes -> Tesla.
From the news I have been seeing today, it seems like the D's are making progress on the bill and we should have a framework by the end of the week to look at.
noah82
Member
ProjectTrinity
Member
Spidey616
Member
The proposed legislation was for all automakers. Tesla included. In fact both variants coming out of the House and Senate did not exclude Tesla.
I think people are getting too worked up over the WH snub. The point of part of that was about traditional automakers pivoting to EVs. Tesla has always been EV centered.
Here's a good summary of the two competing proposals:
www.greencarreports.com
EV tax credit boost: At up to $12,500, here’s how the two versions compare
Union-made electric vehicles could get a big push under two EV credit reform proposals; we take a look at the particulars.
There are 3 competing proposals. The 3rd proposal is for nothing to happen, which is the Republican position.Here's a good summary of the two competing proposals:
EV tax credit boost: At up to $12,500, here’s how the two versions compare
Union-made electric vehicles could get a big push under two EV credit reform proposals; we take a look at the particulars.
thinktwice
Member
I think we sometimes fall into the trap of assuming someone making more ($125k+) automatically has more disposable income than someone making less ($67k). Sometimes true, but not always. Chances are the former also has higher expenses (mortgage/rent) when compared to the latter. Also, higher earners typically make more responsible financial decisions and an incentive to purchase one thing over another is just that.Tesla Model 3 Demographics: Who Buys Model 3s by Age, Income:
Tesla Model 3 owners have a median age of 46 and annual income of over $128,000. Learn more demographics about Tesla Model 3 owners.Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020
This report presents data on income, earnings, income inequality & poverty in the United States based on information collected in the 2021 and earlier CPS ASEC.Are You Well-Paid? Compare Your Salary to the Average U.S. Income | The Motley Fool
What's the average salary in the U.S.? What's the median income for men and women? Which professions make the most? Read on to find out what the research says.
Median US household income is $67xxx , average is $87xxx. The average Model 3 buyers income is $125xxxx. Assuming these represent the "poorest" Tesla buyers, I really have a hard time believing they need a $7500 government incentive to purchase an EV. I'd be more in favor if the incentive phases out at certain income levels , and phasing it out entirely when the vehicle hits a price point that is way above the average new car price. Examples - Model S and Model X.
Look, I like money as much as the next person and you're right, $7500 is a nice chunk. But I also pay a boat load of taxes, and would absolutely prefer to see them go into efforts that generate more positive lift for the environment and/or society at large than just give me a big refund and a bunch of other people making 50%+ more than the average US Household, when filing in 2023.
Similar threads
- Sticky
