Tesla in deal with Daimler

[doug]

The recent PBS News Hour interview with Elon had a possible reference to this Daimler deal:

ELON MUSK: ... But one other thing I should say is we're actually very happy to sell batteries and motors, we're happy to sell power train components to other car companies. So we're not trying to keep the power train to ourselves, we're happy to sell that to other companies.

SPENCER MICHELS: Any buyers?

ELON MUSK: We actually have some, yes, we do. It's still confidential, but we think we'll be able to announce a deal with a major car company maybe later this year.

Searching the forum, there are a few other threads that have to do with Daimler and batteries:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/news-articles-events/1102-daimler-battery-tech-breakthrough.html
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/battery-discussion/527-daimler-chrysler-do-li-ion-house.html
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/electric-cars/1041-mercedes-ev-coming.html

 

[doug]

Daimler plans electric Mercedes vehicles: report - MarketWatch

Separately, weekly Automobilwoche reported that U.S. car supplier Tesla Motors is expected to deliver the needed lithium ion batteries for the Mercedes cars. The magazine didn't reveal the sources for its story.

Sounds like the same speculation we've already made here.

 

[doug]

Tesla Motors to Supply Mercedes-Benz with Lithium Ion Batteries*|*BenzInsider.com - The Official Mercedes-Benz Fan Blog

A couple of weeks ago, we reported on a technology deal that Daimler AG and Tesla Motors are working on. While we thought the deal might involve the 1.0l smart fortwo engines, as Autoblog was claiming. According to AutomobilWoche, the deal involves lithium ion batteries that Tesla Motors will be supplying for the Mercedes-Benz electric cars. Mercedes probably realized that Tesla is much farther ahead in the development of long-lasting and durable lithium ion batteries than they are, which is why they opted to purchasing the batteries, instead of making them.

A-Class Mercedes: Goodbye fuel cell, hello Tesla battery? - AutoblogGreen

Another magazine, Automobilwoche, as well as reporting 2010 as the year of the e-Mercedes arrival, states that the supplier of the battery for the cars would be none other than the American firm Tesla Motors. The source of their information was not revealed and since this has not been officially stated by either company, it's still somewhat speculative. We know from talking with Tesla's Elon Musk that something is going on between them and Mercedes and it's definitely not a motor for the Whitestar, since Musk made it clear that Tesla products will remain gasoline-free. We also know that Daimler claims to have solved the thermal issues associated with lithium ion batteries of a certain chemistry by integrating battery cooling systems with that of the car. Then again, Continental has already been named a battery supplier for the Mercedes S 400 hybrid.

My comment over at ABG:

7-01-2008 @ 11:59AM
Doug said...


Hmmm... here's what I think:
Perhaps the "small deal" Musk referred to was that Tesla is supplying Daimler with a few battery packs just for evaluation. This would seem plausible given that Mercedes appears to still be looking at other options. Then the potential "very big deal" would be an actual contract to provide battery packs for Mercedes EVs. For a small company like Tesla, that certainly would be a big deal.

 

[doug]

Tesla may supply lithium-ion batteries to Daimler | Automotive News Blog - Wide Open Throttle

Mercedes is reportedly pushing to have all-electic versions of the vehicles on the road by 2010, and the possible purchase of Tesla's battery tech for the vehicles could speed their time to market. The deal could also be a potential boon for Tesla, which has struggled to build series production vehicles but could end up with a potentially more lucrative role as an electric powertrain supplier as it further hones its technology through the Roadster and Model S.

 

[graham]

Autoblog Green: Speculation on the Daimler-Tesla deal

Some complete speculation on the Daimler-Tesla deal - AutoblogGreen

 

[TEG]

I had already contemplated the idea of a Tesla battery pack (and maybe even drivetrain) in a US bound electric Smart car, but I kept it to myself... Tesla seems to have enough on their hands just to deliver the Roadster (and upcoming sedan) according to existing commitments, so a hyperactive rumor mill just offers distractions at this point. These days, I am content to just wait and see what Tesla decides to announce on their own without trying to speculate on all the various possible scenarios of things they ~might~ be doing.

With all that said, I could see myself becoming a customer of an electric Smart given that I can't afford a Roadster right now. My current RangerEV is working out well as a commuter vehicle, but the range is slowly deteriorating (now at about 55 miles) so it will need to be replaced someday.

By the way, my commute it just straight/flat freeway, so a commuting car with modest handling capability works out for me. The Roadster is much better for those with twisty mountain road commutes (e.g.: Martin, EM, SJ, etc.).

Looking forward to 2010+ when we have multiple choices at the "low end"... MiEV, Miles/Javlon, SmartEV, TeslaBlueStar, etc.

 

[malcolm]

Could be a licensing deal.

 

[JRP3]

With all that said, I could see myself becoming a customer of an electric Smart given that I can't afford a Roadster right now. My current RangerEV is working out well as a commuter vehicle, but the range is slowly deteriorating (now at about 55 miles) so it will need to be replaced someday.

Actually all you should need to replace are the batteries, and maybe with better ones improving your range. What is in the vehicle now, who did the conversion? Have you described the vehicle somewhere previously?

 

[vfx]

... but I kept it to myself...so a hyperactive rumor mill just offers distractions at this point. These days, I am content to just wait and see

Self censorship. Very sad considering that TEG's speculations were the engine (motor!) that drove this site in the early days.

But Tony was also an architect as well but he has also tossed his keys so maybe it's just time to get over it and let the new drivers get behind the wheel...

 

[TEG]

Actually all you should need to replace are the batteries, and maybe with better ones improving your range. What is in the vehicle now, who did the conversion? Have you described the vehicle somewhere previously?

2000 Factory Ford RangerEV with NiMH batteries.
Cobasys lawsuit stopped Toyota/Panasonic from bringing any more of the NiMH batteries to the USA, and besides the price skyrocketed, so it isn't really a viable option to replace them.

The costs to replace the NiMH with Li-Ion would likely be cost prohibitive as well.

 

[graham]

Financial Times confirms Tesla to supply batteries for electric Smart - AutoblogGreen

 

[Kardax]

I can't help but wonder if we're seeing the TH!NK fiasco all over again.

The only way this would make any sense for Tesla is if the Model S battery pack design was basically done, thus freeing engineering resources for side-projects like this.

If this works out, Daimler could be a great business partner for Tesla, with their extensive manufacturing experience and resources. If it doesn't work out, it would be an embarrassment, but wouldn't hurt the company much, otherwise.

-Ryan

 

[malcolm]

Er.... I would sincerely hope the Model S pack design is done. Way too late if not.

 

[Joseph]

The first thing that came to my mind was, "Th!nk" when I saw this, but I'm sure they thought over this especially after they already made the mistake once.

However, there is one big difference between the two: volume. Th!nk, if I remember correctly, is aiming for tens of thousands of vehicles while Smart is only asking for 150. This should make it easier for Tesla, I believe.

 

[DDB]

I can't help but wonder if we're seeing the TH!NK fiasco all over again.

The only way this would make any sense for Tesla is if the Model S battery pack design was basically done, thus freeing engineering resources for side-projects like this.

If this works out, Daimler could be a great business partner for Tesla, with their extensive manufacturing experience and resources. If it doesn't work out, it would be an embarrassment, but wouldn't hurt the company much, otherwise.

-Ryan

I agree. I tend to think Tesla's expertise is in the drivetrain and other mechanics, not the battery IMO. Why wouldn't Daimler go with someone safe like A123 or Enerdel? I think it's dangerous for Tesla to try to master all aspects because they're almost going to have to outsource to a third party if they are truly going to compete. Just consider the expense of the Volt's battery pack...no way does Tesla have those type of resources. Are we off base?

 

[graham]

I think most of Tesla's Patent IP is around the battery, actually. Until battery chemistry changes dramatically, their work on batteries is arguably their most valuable asset to other manufacturers.

 

[JRP3]

I think most of Tesla's Patent IP is around the battery, actually. Until battery chemistry changes dramatically, their work on batteries is arguably their most valuable asset to other manufacturers.

Exactly. Their battery setup is the main reason the Tesla can do what it does.

 

[jorgbrown]

Electric Smart Car by Tesla?

So autobloggreen got a story from Financial Times about Tesla supplying batteries for the SmartCar.

Financial Times confirms Tesla to supply batteries for electric Smart - AutoblogGreen

It reminded me of something I saw in the parking lot of Tesla Motors in San Carlos



Note 1: The Tesla MFG (Manufacturing) license plate.

Note 2: No exhaust

Note 3: The gearshift was the Tesla 1/2/R shifter, not the SmartCar shifter. I couldn't get a good shot with my celphone, so I had to come back with a better camera, but by then the car was gone. Sigh.

For comparison, here's a shot of a real SmartCar that shows you where the exhaust pipes would be:

 

[malcolm]

Fantastic news. Thank you jorgbrown.

The upshot of this is that a Bluestar "clone" can come to market years ahead of schedule.

The smart fortwo was originally intended to be a hybrid back in the days when swatch were involved. Various companies have made EV versions over the years including the UK's Zytek, who also made an elecrtic Elise - now in the Gaydon Motor Museum.

If Tesla are sharing battery technology, I hope that Daimler are sharing their polymer body panel processing techniques.

 

[dpeilow]

When did you see that, Jorg?