Tesla in deal with Daimler

[jorgbrown]

When did you see that, Jorg?

About 3 weeks ago.

 

[WarpedOne]

Hmm, I'd say there is more in this deal than just batteries.

PEM must be intimately knowledgable about the battery properties so PEM is probably also TM's, maybe a scaled down version of Roadster's one. Don't know about motor. That is probably daimlers or something of-the-shelf.

 

[doug]

There was a Flickr photo a while back with a bunch of Smart Cars parked out by the San Carlos shop. So Tesla has been working on them for a while. Supposedly the electric Smart will not compete with Bluestar. But you'd think that if they brought this to the US, it might:

 

[WarpedOne]

Yup, electric Smart Roadster is something I'd buy but they don't make them any more.

 

[dpeilow]

I always liked the look of the ForFour as a practical city car, but unfortunately they've stopped making that too :frown:

 

[flabby]

Some more news about the smart ED

Smart ED test is in full swing in Islington, UK - AutoblogGreen

 

[graham]

Daimler makes an official announcement, but does not mention Tesla by name:

Daimler to Electrify Autobahn With ?e-mobility Berlin? Earth2Tech

Berlin’s autobahn will be getting a charge from the “e-mobility Berlin” program Daimler AG officially unveiled today. The automaker is working with German utility RWE to put more than 100 electric cars on the city’s roads by 2010. Under terms of the joint venture, Daimler will provide electric vehicles from its Smart and Mercedes-Benz lines while RWE will install some 500 charging points around the city.

The announcement gives no legs to the rumors circulating about Daimler’s possible partnerships with a slew of cleantech startups. Last week, the Financial Times reported that electric car poster child Tesla Motors would be supplying the batteries for the Smart cars, but the release doesn’t say whose batteries will be in them.

 

[Finkenbusch]

Wishfull thinking graham and comrades

- begging for compliment, crying for consideration are not even given a look by Daimler.

Fact is:
The original Mercedes / Daimler press release mentions nothing in this respect - not even a hint.

“e-mobility Berlin”: Daimler and RWE embarking on the age of electro-mobility

They would be crazy to use Teslas trick "mobile phone battery technology".

If the Germans are honored for one thing that is technology of the finest and the real stuff -
the original
- not faking or nudeling the nudel.

compris?

 

[vfx]

... or nudeling the nudel.

Can we say this in a Family forum?

 

[malcolm]

I agree. I tend to think Tesla's expertise is in the drivetrain and other mechanics, not the battery IMO. Why wouldn't Daimler go with someone safe like A123 or Enerdel? I think it's dangerous for Tesla to try to master all aspects because they're almost going to have to outsource to a third party if they are truly going to compete. Just consider the expense of the Volt's battery pack...no way does Tesla have those type of resources. Are we off base?

Maybe this is just a test arrangement. Smart seem to be keen on endlessly testing the electric version of the fortwo, so it is possible that there will be extended trials with packs from a number of different suppliers.

 

[graham]

Fact is:
The original Mercedes / Daimler press release mentions nothing in this respect - not even a hint.

This is true. As I said.

They would be crazy to use Teslas trick "mobile phone battery technology".

Well, we have confirmation that Daimler and Tesla have some sort of agreement together, just not what. Tesla's most marketable technology is their battery. Knowing that Daimler and Tesla are in an agreement - if not for that, what do you suggest?

We also have pictures of Smart Cars at Tesla motors without tailpipes.

We also have press from many places stating that Tesla is part of this deal, just not official confirmation from either Tesla or Daimler.

You can make many arguments that Tesla and Daimler are not working together for this particular deal, all the speculation may be mistaken. But it is incorrect to say they are not working together at all. We have had many confirmations of this fact.

 

[Finkenbusch]

We also have pictures of Smart Cars at Tesla motors without tailpipes.

No wonder - Thats normal.
I can send you tons of pictures showing Smart Cars without a tailpipe.

Due to the arrangement of the Smart's pipe its pretty much hidden from onlookers view - no matter if in EV flavor (like the 100 cars currently as test-fleet on the London streets) nor the standard gasoline one (the ten-thousands roaming European streets). Even if you stand exactly behind a normal Smart - you can hardly locate the pipe.

By the way - Smart Cars are pretty save as well.

see:

Euro NCAP's independent / unbiased test site

 

[stopcrazypp]

Due to the arrangement of the Smart's pipe its pretty much hidden from onlookers view

Which is why we did a comparison between the claimed picture of the electric smart car at Tesla headquarters and a standard one:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/future-cars/1589-electric-smart-car-tesla.html
You can see in the top picture there is clearly no pipe and the bottom picture the pipe is clearly visible even though the bottom picture was taken at a higher angle than the top picture (from the reflections Jorg is kneeling in the top picture and the bottom picture was taken sitting in a car, so the angle is higher in the second picture).

 

[GSP]

Finkenbusch,

The Daimler-Chrysler marrage did seem challanged from the start. But, haven't they already divorced (except for Daimler keeping some Chrysler stock)?

Sorry about your Daimler Stock. At least it has much better future than my GM stock.

If Tesla has technology that could benift Daimler, it would be available for much less than the outrageous price that was paid for Chrysler.

I know you don't agree, but Tesla does have a very advanced powertrain. It would take time for another firm to duplicate the same level of performance and efficiency. With so little to lose, it would make sense for Daimler to evaluate what Tesla has to offer.

 

[Joseph]

Something interesting to add.

http://www.informationweek.com/news...cle.jhtml?articleID=209901592&subSection=News

Lithium-Ion Smart Fortwo Stalling Over Battery Supplier Issues?

Cobasys is partly owned Energy Conversion Devices and Chevron. (I know the edmunds article says they're owned by "CSC" but I have no idea what company they are talking about. I have read numerous times, and once in a book, that the company is partly owned by Chevron and Energy Conversion Devices)

An article was saying how Mercedes is having problems with them as a supplier and that the company might be sold and stuff.

Then, Edmunds is saying,

"The electrically powered Smart Fortwo has been delayed because of issues with the battery supplier, Cobasys of southeastern Michigan. Development had progressed to the point that Inside Line has taken the electric-drive Smart out for test-drives"

I don't want to delve into some discussion about conspiracy theories, but it is interesting how Cobasys is coming up again as a barrier to EVs. I'm sure most people here have heard about the patent issue on NiMH. Now, just as Mercedes is delving into EVs, the same supplier is a roadblock to EVs.

 

[SteveF]

This logic doesn't make sense. It says that Daimler had a bad experience in the US, therefore, they will never deal with the US again. Those folks have to be smarter than that..!!!

The folks at Daimler are smarter than that, you can be sure. If you follow this blog for any amount of time, you will see that some posters have an axe to grind and are blindy negative to whatever Tesla does. After awhile you will learn to ignore the comments and/or the posters.

 

[vfx]

I don't want to delve into some discussion about conspiracy theories, but it is interesting how Cobasys is coming up again as a barrier to EVs.

It's worth reading the first comment from "Guest". The writer gives a link

Electric Vehicle - Delivery Van - NiMH Battery Powered Manufacturer exporting direct from United States

to another company Innovan, that was suckered by the same Chevron Cobasys "cup and ball" trick earlier. So Chevron is not simply sitting on battery technology, they are actively toying with customers with a NiMH battery cell on a rubberband.

How many times does it take?

 

[malcolm]

So Chevron is not simply sitting on battery technology, they are actively toying with customers with a NiMH battery cell on a rubberband.

The danger signals will come when any of the present alternative energy sources gets an"automotive approved" label attached to it. The Oil Companies will be looking to shift their existing business models sideways into some form of alt-energy cartel.

If they can't control the energy then controlling the preferred storage/transducer technology (whatever that may be) will be the next best thing.

 

[domenick]

Excuse my post if its on-topic

Then, Edmunds is saying,

"The electrically powered Smart Fortwo has been delayed because of issues with the battery supplier, Cobasys of southeastern Michigan. Development had progressed to the point that Inside Line has taken the electric-drive Smart out for test-drives"

While Edmunds is usually a good source, this article is not accurate.

Cobasys doesn't make lithium ion batteries. The Smart EDs in London are powered by sodium-nickel-chloride (Zebra) battery. not sodium nickel-hydride.

As you stated, Cobasys owner is not "CSC', whoever the hell that is.

It's possible they might have a supplier problem but given all the errors in this article, it's hard to say for sure.

 

[graham]

Another new article speculating that Tesla is the battery supplier:

Berlin to charge up Smart cars | Cleantech Group

But Diamler is not confirming or denying.

Recent reports have pegged San Carlos, Calif.-based Tesla Motors, maker of the high-speed electric Tesla Roadster, as a battery supplier for Daimler, but the Germany automaker is keeping tight-lipped about its power plans.

"We have been in talks with various companies, but I cannot confirm anything," said Wiese.

Daimler did say it plans to use lithium-ion batteries in the new cars

I wonder if this means that they are still deciding amongst different vendors, or if they have made their decision and are just not ready to publicize it yet.