Tesla misinformation …

[Monkey]

I guess this is a me too response to the OP, but I think it's obvious they're new to this ordeal of buying a new car.

Purchase cost on the Tesla web site is indeed an estimate and it clearly states that. Tesla does not finance the purchase of vehicles themselves, their finance department brokers a finance package for you through various lenders. You should shop around as each Tesla SC will work with different lenders, depending on their location. This is also dependent on your own credit and all that. Leasing or cash purchases are different and are more accurate on the site as there are no third-party finance charges to deal with. They still estimate taxes, which always vary anyway.

Maintenance... Oh, where do I begin on this one? You're buying a complex machine with complex embedded computer systems. It is going to require maintenance. What it doesn't require is typical car maintenance where you change the oil every 5000 miles or so. But there is still maintenance in the form of motor bearings that need to be lubricated and a general inspection of the systems. You don't rotate the tires in a staggered setup, however most new traction-control / AWD vehicles don't require tire rotation anyway as the wear patterns are very even. If you see uneven tire wear in a contemporary traction control vehicle, then you have improperly balanced tires or the vehicle is in need of an alignment. An annual check-up on the car is a good idea, but in reality they would like to see it every 12 to 15 thousand miles. Not sure on the current rates, but it was $600 for an annual checkup on a Model S and that included everything that may be needed. Except the cost of new tires if it's time. If you lease the car, these annual check-ups are included in your lease payments. If you purchase, they are not included. Tesla will have the option to pre-pay with a service plan, but those are not available yet for the Model X. There's usually a 25% or so discount on each service appointment by pre-purchasing.

Extended warranty? Not available to purchase yet for the X. Not sure if I would buy it or not, but I have 8 years to make that decision. I rarely keep a vehicle that long, so I guess it's not going to be an issue for me. Not a fan of extended warranties myself.

Mileage on the odometer varies on all new cars, from all manufacturers. A lot can happen from the time a car rolls off the assembly line to the point you take delivery. They're still a new car when you receive them. Tesla actually fills out the MVPA form with 50 or 100 miles specified just to cover or closely represent miles that may be on the car. It's an inventory vehicles, so there's a good chance it's seen a test drive or two, just as a car on a dealership lot would. You may find that the MVPA form says 50 miles and the car actually shows up at your SC with 30 miles on it.

 

[182RG]

To the OP this may sound a bit flippant, but I also think it is well worth dealing with Tesla's mis-communication issues in order to own and drive a Tesla.

A very comforting statement when you're about to fork over $140K for a car.

 

[182RG]

It is going to require maintenance.

But, unfortunately Tesla is shady in this regard. They want to tell you that there is maintenance that needs to be performed (brake fluid flush, battery coolant change, inspections), but they can't make it required to keep the warranty in force, because they are skirting around Magnuson-Moss, since they a) don't want to and b) won't give owners ready access to the procedures and tools to perform their own maintenance.

So, the strategy is keeping people (prospective owners, owners, and employees) as poorly communicated with on this subject as possible. This needs to change.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Extended warranty? Not available to purchase yet for the X. Not sure if I would buy it or not, but I have 8 years to make that decision.

Just FYI -- you have until the factory warranty expires, which is four years, to decide to get the ESA.

The battery and motor warranty is eight years/unlimited miles, and is a separate warranty.

 

[Bishop]

I guess this is a me too response to the OP, but I think it's obvious they're new to this ordeal of buying a new car.

Purchase cost on the Tesla web site is indeed an estimate and it clearly states that. Tesla does not finance the purchase of vehicles themselves, their finance department brokers a finance package for you through various lenders. You should shop around as each Tesla SC will work with different lenders, depending on their location. This is also dependent on your own credit and all that. Leasing or cash purchases are different and are more accurate on the site as there are no third-party finance charges to deal with. They still estimate taxes, which always vary anyway.

Maintenance... Oh, where do I begin on this one? You're buying a complex machine with complex embedded computer systems. It is going to require maintenance. What it doesn't require is typical car maintenance where you change the oil every 5000 miles or so. But there is still maintenance in the form of motor bearings that need to be lubricated and a general inspection of the systems. You don't rotate the tires in a staggered setup, however most new traction-control / AWD vehicles don't require tire rotation anyway as the wear patterns are very even. If you see uneven tire wear in a contemporary traction control vehicle, then you have improperly balanced tires or the vehicle is in need of an alignment. An annual check-up on the car is a good idea, but in reality they would like to see it every 12 to 15 thousand miles. Not sure on the current rates, but it was $600 for an annual checkup on a Model S and that included everything that may be needed. Except the cost of new tires if it's time. If you lease the car, these annual check-ups are included in your lease payments. If you purchase, they are not included. Tesla will have the option to pre-pay with a service plan, but those are not available yet for the Model X. There's usually a 25% or so discount on each service appointment by pre-purchasing.

Extended warranty? Not available to purchase yet for the X. Not sure if I would buy it or not, but I have 8 years to make that decision. I rarely keep a vehicle that long, so I guess it's not going to be an issue for me. Not a fan of extended warranties myself.

Mileage on the odometer varies on all new cars, from all manufacturers. A lot can happen from the time a car rolls off the assembly line to the point you take delivery. They're still a new car when you receive them. Tesla actually fills out the MVPA form with 50 or 100 miles specified just to cover or closely represent miles that may be on the car. It's an inventory vehicles, so there's a good chance it's seen a test drive or two, just as a car on a dealership lot would. You may find that the MVPA form says 50 miles and the car actually shows up at your SC with 30 miles on it.

now i'll admit i didn't read this whole quote .. but i'll respond to the part i did read.. tesla has a communication problem period its easy to to defend there actions by saying you should read the MVPA but you don't even see that until AFTER you had them money and even still it changes and you get NO notification if something has changed. Leaning on the line of " the info on the website is an estimate" while that maybe true it needs to be listed somewhere on the website. People Myself included have made financial commitments based off the info tesla provided on there site and the only time savings is used on there site is when they are trying to convince you to buy by talking about the savings. look at the delivery times . its says delivery times late (insert month here) it doesn't say estimated it says an actual time frame and i'm not the only one that has this issue there are plenty of people on the forum who are upset that they didn't get there S or X anywhere near the time frame given and some if not most even plopped down extra money on the promise of a earlier delivery. every other car dealer ( and i looked locally ) when they give a time that they think is a guess they clearly say estimated. Tesla does not. People have been sued for less ( example my coffee cup didn't warn me my coffee was hot ) its becoming more and more of a problem i know of at least 3 FTC complaints about this same thing.. add that to the lemon law suits and the build quality issues how many more pass's do you give a company?

 

[Monkey]

now i'll admit i didn't read this whole quote .. but i'll respond to the part i did read.. tesla has a communication problem period its easy to to defend there actions by saying you should read the MVPA but you don't even see that until AFTER you had them money and even still it changes and you get NO notification if something has changed.

Er... The Purchase Agreement or MVPA in Tesla's case is generated for each vehicle when it leaves the factory. Tesla sales/ delivery people can generate a new one as needed for inventory cars or other situations. If you didn't see an MVPA until after you paid for the car, then your delivery specialist did a shitty job. I didn't pay for my car until I saw it, inspected it, went through all the paperwork, etc.. Tesla doesn't enter the Purchase Agreement into your online account files until the purchase is complete, or at least that is when they're supposed to do it. I had a copy of my MVPA when my X was en route to the SC for delivery.

This is pretty standard practice for ordering a vehicle from any other auto maker. I've ordered three other vehicles besides my Model X in the past year. The experience was pretty much the same with all of them, including the Model X. The exception being that I was a bit nervous about build issues with the X and all the other things we read about on the Forum. Funny thing is, when I confirmed my order for the X in January, it said that I would have my P90D in late spring. I took delivery in May. My DS, actually I had two of them as one moved on to other things a few weeks before my delivery, were both very responsive and proactive with information.

Leaning on the line of " the info on the website is an estimate" while that maybe true it needs to be listed somewhere on the website.

Seriously?
"Price indicated does not include taxes and registration fees unless stated otherwise. You will be responsible for these additional taxes and fees. The payment calculations are provided for informational purposes only and may reflect assumptions that may not apply to you or loan terms for which you may not qualify."

You admitted to not reading my whole post. Seems you didn't read the Tesla web site either. Tesla's payment calculator page and pricing on the configuration page seems to be very much in line with what other auto makers do. Looks pretty comparable to Ford, Toyota, BMW...

look at the delivery times . its says delivery times late (insert month here) it doesn't say estimated it says an actual time frame and i'm not the only one that has this issue there are plenty of people on the forum who are upset that they didn't get there S or X anywhere near the time frame given and some if not most even plopped down extra money on the promise of a earlier delivery. every other car dealer ( and i looked locally ) when they give a time that they think is a guess they clearly say estimated. Tesla does not. People have been sued for less ( example my coffee cup didn't warn me my coffee was hot ) its becoming more and more of a problem i know of at least 3 FTC complaints about this same thing.. add that to the lemon law suits and the build quality issues how many more pass's do you give a company?

Who plopped down extra money for earlier delivery? Didn't know that was an option... Yeah, some people put up the extra $30K to get a Signature model and be the first group invited to configure, but that wasn't extra money to get the car earlier. It was a deposit that applies to the final purchase price of the car. The price of the car was still the same. In fact it it was a bit cheaper for the P model and some of the upgrades included. Once others beyond the Signature group were invited to configure, Sig reservations who configured at that point were competing for space in the queue with non-Sig orders. Some people upgraded to the Performance model when ordering since they were hoping to get the car a bit earlier as the Performance models shipped first. That worked for some, but Tesla ended up producing some non-Performance 90D models in the midst of the 1st quarter push and they have had 90D models in the production pipeline ever since. Some ordered a 90D over a 75D to push up delivery timing. These are purchase decisions made by individuals, not a specific option to pay more to get the car sooner. Production/ delivery order still has most to do with configuration options and delivery region. I feel sorry for those who ordered the 5-seat configuration that's still in limbo. Other than the 5-seat option and a bit of backlog on the 75KWh battery configs, a new order confirmed today for USA delivery is 8 to 10 weeks to delivery.

Producing higher end models first is common practice in the auto industry, other industries too.

I do agree that Tesla could have much better communication. They definitely need better education and training for a lot of their employees. OTOH, I haven't had any trouble getting any of my questions answered when I've bothered to pursue an answer. Many on these forums have had bad experiences with ordering and delivery. Some cars are definitely worthy of being called lemons. In their haste to deliver cars, Tesla let out a number of Model X's that should never have left the factory. We saw that in the early days of the Model S as well. A friend of mine refused his initial delivery of his Model S due to some build issues that were plain as day back when they first started rolling off the line. They kept the car for over a month to fix all the issues and he took delivery, only to have problems. Tesla took the car back and built him a new one. No law suit or lemon law proceedings required. Tesla will get all the kinks worked out eventually. I'm somewhat unsure of the news of the few lemon law claims out there. One was supposedly settled quietly, which really translates to Tesla doing what they were probably going to do right from the start. I also realize that the majority of happy customers don't come online to complain or even talk about their situation and happiness.

I can be critical of Tesla and I often am. Not trying to sugar coat anything here or give them a pass. They have lots of room for improvement, but some of the complaints I see on these forums leave me puzzled. And not that I'm trying to pick on the OP of this thread here, but his issues seem to have more to do with the inexperience of buying a car than an issue with Tesla. And this comes back to poor training and communication from Tesla. The sales and delivery staff need to be able to take someone like this and walk them through the process with whatever level of detail necessary and at an appropriate pace. I buy lots of cars and trucks, both personally and for business. To me this whole Tesla thing is a breeze. To someone who has only leased and never bought a car, especially an expensive and even mysterious new car, this can be a high anxiety situation. Doesn't help when sales people are not there to answer questions correctly.

 

[Bishop]

Er... The Purchase Agreement or MVPA in Tesla's case is generated for each vehicle when it leaves the factory. Tesla sales/ delivery people can generate a new one as needed for inventory cars or other situations. If you didn't see an MVPA until after you paid for the car, then your delivery specialist did a shitty job. I didn't pay for my car until I saw it, inspected it, went through all the paperwork, etc.. Tesla doesn't enter the Purchase Agreement into your online account files until the purchase is complete, or at least that is when they're supposed to do it. I had a copy of my MVPA when my X was en route to the SC for delivery.

This is pretty standard practice for ordering a vehicle from any other auto maker. I've ordered three other vehicles besides my Model X in the past year. The experience was pretty much the same with all of them, including the Model X. The exception being that I was a bit nervous about build issues with the X and all the other things we read about on the Forum. Funny thing is, when I confirmed my order for the X in January, it said that I would have my P90D in late spring. I took delivery in May. My DS, actually I had two of them as one moved on to other things a few weeks before my delivery, were both very responsive and proactive with information.


Seriously?
"Price indicated does not include taxes and registration fees unless stated otherwise. You will be responsible for these additional taxes and fees. The payment calculations are provided for informational purposes only and may reflect assumptions that may not apply to you or loan terms for which you may not qualify."

My issue here wasn't about price but about delivery estimate you call and ask why your delivery time is two months after the time stated they tell you " the time frame on the website was an estimate" however at no time until after you've given them a deposit is estimate and delivery used in the same sentence and when you do see it its buried in the purchase agreement in small letters while technically legal it's misleading.

You admitted to not reading my whole post. Seems you didn't read the Tesla web site either. Tesla's payment calculator page and pricing on the configuration page seems to be very much in line with what other auto makers do. Looks pretty comparable to Ford, Toyota, BMW...



Who plopped down extra money for earlier delivery? Didn't know that was an option... Yeah, some people put up the extra $30K to get a Signature model and be the first group invited to configure, but that wasn't extra money to get the car earlier. It was a deposit that applies to the final purchase price of the car. The price of the car was still the same. In fact it it was a bit cheaper for the P model and some of the upgrades included. Once others beyond the Signature group were invited to configure, Sig reservations who configured at that point were competing for space in the queue with non-Sig orders. Some people upgraded to the Performance model when ordering since they were hoping to get the car a bit earlier as the Performance models shipped first. That worked for some, but Tesla ended up producing some non-Performance 90D models in the midst of the 1st quarter push and they have had 90D models in the production pipeline ever since. Some ordered a 90D over a 75D to push up delivery timing. These are purchase decisions made by individuals, not a specific option to pay more to get the car sooner. Production/ delivery order still has most to do with configuration options and delivery region. I feel sorry for those who ordered the 5-seat configuration that's still in limbo. Other than the 5-seat option and a bit of backlog on the 75KWh battery configs, a new order confirmed today for USA delivery is 8 to 10 weeks to delivery


Everyone who upgraded from coils to sas to get an earlier delivery date, as well as everyone who did not order a 5 seater for the same reason but your right people made these choices on there own but were influenced by the promise of an earlier delivery it was a money grab on Teslas part plain and simple.

Producing higher end models first is common practice in the auto industry, other industries too.

I do agree that Tesla could have much better communication. They definitely need better education and training for a lot of their employees. OTOH, I haven't had any trouble getting any of my questions answered when I've bothered to pursue an answer. Many on these forums have had bad experiences with ordering and delivery. Some cars are definitely worthy of being called lemons. In their haste to deliver cars, Tesla let out a number of Model X's that should never have left the factory. We saw that in the early days of the Model S as well. A friend of mine refused his initial delivery of his Model S due to some build issues that were plain as day back when they first started rolling off the line. They kept the car for over a month to fix all the issues and he took delivery, only to have problems. Tesla took the car back and built him a new one. No law suit or lemon law proceedings required. Tesla will get all the kinks worked out eventually. I'm somewhat unsure of the news of the few lemon law claims out there. One was supposedly settled quietly, which really translates to Tesla doing what they were probably going to do right from the start. I also realize that the majority of happy customers don't come online to complain or even talk about their situation and happiness.

I can be critical of Tesla and I often am. Not trying to sugar coat anything here or give them a pass. They have lots of room for improvement, but some of the complaints I see on these forums leave me puzzled. And not that I'm trying to pick on the OP of this thread here, but his issues seem to have more to do with the inexperience of buying a car than an issue with Tesla. And this comes back to poor training and communication from Tesla. The sales and delivery staff need to be able to take someone like this and walk them through the process with whatever level of detail necessary and at an appropriate pace. I buy lots of cars and trucks, both personally and for business. To me this whole Tesla thing is a breeze. To someone who has only leased and never bought a car, especially an expensive and even mysterious new car, this can be a high anxiety situation. Doesn't help when sales people are not there to answer questions correctly.

 

[ellisina4]

All,
Thank you for your responses. Not sure what it was and why I started questioning my decision as I never do that. I decided to get the car. Made a delivery appointment for next Saturday.

 

[Bishop]

GRATZ!

 

[Sean So Lowe]

All,
Thank you for your responses. Not sure what it was and why I started questioning my decision as I never do that. I decided to get the car. Made a delivery appointment for next Saturday.

Let us know what U think after all is said and done.

 

[llngoc]

Tesla misinformation …

Hello all. 2 weeks ago I purchased MX P90D for my wife. We got it at Highland Park, IL facility. After building the car on Tesla’s website while we were at the store, the SA (sales associate) was able to find one just the way we built it, except the $200 hitch option. Car was available in CA and is being shipped to IL plus we will not have to wait 4-5 months if we were to order it.

We came from a long term Audi family where my wife would always drive SUVs and I drive sedans. Only recently we got into BMWs and have been very happy. Most of our cars are leased as we get tired of them quite fast. We were in the process of ordering BMW X5m and my wife asked to go look at the MX (car she was always thinking of buying) before we commit to another lease. We went to see MX with our two kids and everyone just fell in love with the car. We were so excited that we decided to buy it instead of leasing it, and keep it for 6+ years. One of the reasons is that my wife always talked about Tesla as the future of automotive industry and ease of upgradability over the air.

I typically perform good research about any new car that we lease but this purchase was done on a complete impulse, I know, $150k worth of impulse… The SA did give us $5,500 discount as this was “in stock vehicle” based on his description.

The two best selling points that made us buy this MX was the fact that we were told by the SA that there is absolutely no maintenance (except tire rotation and brakes) on the car and that after 4 years we can buy extended warranty for $4k. I asked SA if that is bumper to bumper warranty and he said “Yes”. I guess since I am a car guy I should have picked up the fact that I should double check everything he say as he did not know if the MX with 22” wheels that we ordered were staggered or square setup… Again, I was so completely blinded by the excitement that was given off by my wife and my young kids, that I completely gave in…

Anyway, after we got home all hyped up, here is where disappointments started piling up:

1. SA called us back about putting a deposit of $2500 and when he told us that the monthly payments based on 78 month loan will be $170 more a month than we saw on Tesla website while shopping at the Tesla store. When I tried to inquire why there is such a difference (78 x $170 = $13,000) he replied that the pricing on the Tesla website is just an estimate. He got the manager involved and she kept saying the same thing, to what I said that they just lost a customer… They both then went to say that they will verify and call me back. 30 min later they called and apologized profusely saying that there was a glitch in their software. But this was not the end.

2. Right before giving the credit card info for a deposit, I asked SA to go over all the options with me over the phone. To my surprise the hitch option was not listed for the car they found for us in CA. SA advised me that they should be able to put it on at later time, but not now as this is not available at the moment as an option to be purchased after the car is built. Fine, deposit was given.

3. I had some free time over the weekend and I started searching on the forum about the MX. I found out that the Zero maintenance was a BS as there is no required maintenance but there is recommended one that cost about $2k over next 4 years (Model X plan is not available yet) and customers actually buy these as many updates/upgrades are performed during these annual service appointments.

4. Bumper to bumper extended warranty was also a big BS. I guess I should have caught this while being in the showroom as I never heard of such a thing about extended warranty (many items are never covered after the original manufacturer’s warranty is over). However, again, without doing a research and seeing how excited my wife and kids were I was truly thinking that may be Tesla is doing something that no other manufacturer did about the ESA (besides building a safe and fast all electric car). I emailed SA that weekend.

a. The following is my email communication with SA: Just wanted to confirm some of the details that we discussed during the purchase, to make sure we have the right understanding of out of pocket expenses. I've outlined what we heard from you below, please confirm. You advised us that there is no maintenance on the car and nothing is required or recommended except tire rotation. At the same time since the front and rear tires are different width that should not be needed also. You also advised us when we were shopping for the car that before the original manufacturer’s warranty expires; we can purchase additional bumper to bumper warranty from Tesla for $4000 that would cover us for a total of 8 years and 100,000 miles.


b. His response: Nothing is required but we recommend annual service. You can find more information regarding the Service Plans and extended warranty at the link here: Service plans . To confirm, the extended warranty is $4000 for the Model S. After speaking with service there has not yet been established for the Model X although I am sure it will be similar.


5. Well, this is still not an end. When we received the MVPA for the loan purposes, the following was stated under vehicle description: New – Previous, service/demo vehicle. (50 miles on the odometer). I immediately emailed him and the following was his reply:

a. The “New-previous/service/demo vehicle” just states that it is new and has not been titled yet. It has been in our use. This particular vehicle was assigned as a test drive/marketing vehicle but we intercepted it before it made it to its destination!

I started looking on the forums and found out that VINs 14xx range were given to customers with cars being delivered sometime last March. My VIN was in the 14xx range. So SA is saying that this car was in and out for last 4 months…

My apologies for such a long post but I am leaning towards just canceling the whole thing and either writing off $2,500 deposit that we were told now is not refundable or disputing it based on a chain of misinformation by Tesla SA (I have not signed loan papers yet). It is 12am here and I had 12 hour work days this week but I wanted to share my experience with Tesla purchase and I hope Tesla reads these forums more that other manufacturers read theirs. Again, if I am out of line, my apologies, but I never had such a negative experience with any of my purchases, especially with the most expensive car purchase I have ever made.

@ellisina4 - The 50 miles stated on the MVPA probably means that it is factory fresh (or very close to it). I have picked up 2 Teslas from the factory in the last two years and both have 50 miles on the MVPA but the actual miles were a lot less than 50. As for maintenance, it is practically zero maintenance since for an ICE if you do not follow the oil change/service interval, your warranty can be voided but not in the case for Tesla.

Let us know how everything turns out, I am on my second Tesla and on the way for the third next year, so I guess you can call me a happy customer so far even our Model X delivery a couple of weeks ago left something to be desired. (DS forgot to mention a document they need and I need to drive home to pick it up. Luckily that I live 20 miles away from the factory ) But I am sure once you get the car, you will forget about all these "unpleasantries".

May be you should have hanged out a bit more on this forum before the purchase.

 

[182RG]

Not sure what it was and why I started questioning my decision as I never do that.

Might have something to do with making a 6 figure financial commitment. It's always good to 2nd and 3rd guess these decisions, especially for a discretionary purchase.