Tesla model 3 awd lr only getting 286 miles of range at 100% charge

[Jason_G]

That’s interesting and weird. I’m having the same exact issue. I picked up my DM-M3 in august with 3 miles on it. Within three weeks I notice the first full charge was only 286 miles. When I called Tesla they gave me some BS about the car calculating base on usage. My response to them was to put that on the website next to where it said 310 miles range. By the way, I’m also in CT but I ruled out weather because my range change was on September when it was still warm. This can not be normal

I have a P3, and mine will only charge to ~282 miles at 100%. I too have had Tesla service center give a BS response about it calculating based on my driving habits.

 

[Freakyguy666]

I wouldn't stress over what the car shows as rated range since that doesn't mean anything.

incorrect. It does, in fact, have meaning. For example, if at “100%” the rated range showed 100 miles, there is clearly an issue with degradation.

 

[vsansal]

incorrect. It does, in fact, have meaning. For example, if at “100%” the rated range showed 100 miles, there is clearly an issue with degradation.

Your example is very extreme. If you get 100 miles at 100% you probably have more serious issues then degradation. I meant on a healthy pack it doesn't mean anything since that estimation will change with temperature, Tesla updates, and cell inbalance due to your charging habits. And depending on how you drive and road conditions, you might get better results then those estimates or you might not ever achieve it. If you want to know where your battery stands, you either need to drive it from 100% down to 0% on a single drive and see how much energy you used, or use something like scan my Tesla to check your nominal pack value. All I am saying the rated miles don't mean much.

 

[DrLegoHair]

Wow -

I have got you all beat at 255 on a P3D-! At this point, I’m hoping to loose a few more percent so I can get a new battery

 

[Jason_G]

Wow -

I have got you all beat at 255 on a P3D-! At this point, I’m hoping to loose a few more percent so I can get a new battery

no kidding! Dang, thought mine at 280 was bad.

 

[SigNC]

Wow -

I have got you all beat at 255 on a P3D-! At this point, I’m hoping to loose a few more percent so I can get a new battery

Have you charged it to 90% for a while to let the battery balance out?

 

[G26okie]

Right now my P3D- is 303-305 miles with 5,450 miles on the car, built in 10/2019.

My coworkers P3D- is 307 miles with 1,800 miles on the car, built in 9/2019.

 

[KenC]

Wow -

I have got you all beat at 255 on a P3D-! At this point, I’m hoping to loose a few more percent so I can get a new battery

Aren't you only half-way to a new battery?

 

[vsansal]

Right now my P3D- is 303-305 miles with 5,450 miles on the car, built in 10/2019.

My coworkers P3D- is 307 miles with 1,800 miles on the car, built in 9/2019.

Both 2020 models with 18 inch wheels selected?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

If you want to know where your battery stands, you either need to drive it from 100% down to 0% on a single drive and see how much energy you used, or use something like scan my Tesla to check your nominal pack value. All I am saying the rated miles don't mean much.

Yeah they do, with the exception of the cold temp issue you mention. You'll find that for a battery at a reasonable temperature, if you drive it all the way down it nearly always correlates extremely well to energy used on the trip meter (assuming all the standard caveats and correction factors, etc., which have been discussed ad nauseum here). This is pretty much settled information at this point - just check it yourself if you don't believe me.

We're not talking about quibbling over 1-2% differences here - we're talking about people with 260 rated miles at 100% vs. people who have 300+ miles at 100%. Those numbers really are significant. They indicate dramatic differences in available energy, and there is no getting around it, and the difference in my specific example is about 14%.

Again, with all the caveats about temperature, model year, wheel selection, buffer, trip meter "heat loss", hidden degradation when new, etc.

 

[G26okie]

Both 2020 models with 18 inch wheels selected?

Yeah both 2020s with the 18s.

The highest I saw was 310 after purchase and then 313-314 after the 320+ mile formula update.

 

[vsansal]

We're not talking about quibbling over 1-2% differences here - we're talking about people with 260 rated miles at 100% vs. people who have 300+ miles at 100%. Those numbers really are significant. They indicate dramatic differences in available energy, and there is no getting around it, and the difference in my specific example is about 14%.

That's exactly my point. Those rated miles are what the BMS thinks how much energy is left and not necessarily the actual capacity of the battery. With identical battery cells, on every model 3/Y it doesn't make sense there is that much difference on the capacity and degradation. And like I said, the only real way to measure this is to charge to 100% and drive until the car can't drive anymore, not when it shows 0%. Of course this is not ideal and not recommended.
There are multiple high milage model 3 owners out there. 2 of them over 130K and they both get around 300 miles of rated range. Both almost exclusively use only supercharging. One claims 98% supercharge out of 130K miles. The other says he charges to 100% almost daily using supercharger. They both show less then 10% degradation. There are similar examples like this from model S and model X owners. Check out the tesloop vehicles for example. One of their model X over 330K miles lost only 23% capacity. And you know how much abuse those cars get. They get charged to 100% daily using supercharger and log over 15K miles month. You are talking about 14% loss already which cannot be accurate.

I believe the BMS system is much more accurate when you drive a lot if miles everyday and charge a much larger percentage everyday compared to someone just driving 20 miles a day and plugging every night to top it off. That's why Tesla is telling people to drive it below 10% and charge it up to 100% up to 3 times to train the BMS of your actual capacity and reclaim your rated miles. Or do what I do and switch to percentage and don't worry about it. That's why to me the rated miles don't mean much. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Jason_G]

That's exactly my point. Those rated miles are what the BMS thinks how much energy is left and not necessarily the actual capacity of the battery. With identical battery cells, on every model 3/Y it doesn't make sense there is that much difference on the capacity and degradation. And like I said, the only real way to measure this is to charge to 100% and drive until the car can't drive anymore, not when it shows 0%. Of course this is not ideal and not recommended.
There are multiple high milage model 3 owners out there. 2 of them over 130K and they both get around 300 miles of rated range. Both almost exclusively use only supercharging. One claims 98% supercharge out of 130K miles. The other says he charges to 100% almost daily using supercharger. They both show less then 10% degradation. There are similar examples like this from model S and model X owners. Check out the tesloop vehicles for example. One of their model X over 330K miles lost only 23% capacity. And you know how much abuse those cars get. They get charged to 100% daily using supercharger and log over 15K miles month. You are talking about 14% loss already which cannot be accurate.

I believe the BMS system is much more accurate when you drive a lot if miles everyday and charge a much larger percentage everyday compared to someone just driving 20 miles a day and plugging every night to top it off. That's why Tesla is telling people to drive it below 10% and charge it up to 100% up to 3 times to train the BMS of your actual capacity and reclaim your rated miles. Or do what I do and switch to percentage and don't worry about it. That's why to me the rated miles don't mean much. But that's just my opinion.

FWIW, I have 25k miles on my ‘18 P3D_stealth, and I have a rated range of 280 miles at 100%. Pre-pandemic I was charging to 90% daily, and returning home with 50-60%. I’ve supercharged less than a dozen times.

 

[vsansal]

FWIW, I have 25k miles on my ‘18 P3D_stealth, and I have a rated range of 280 miles at 100%. Pre-pandemic I was charging to 90% daily, and returning home with 50-60%. I’ve supercharged less than a dozen times.

So your car only goes from 50-60% to 90% everyday and calculates capacity based on that. Did you ever try draining it below 10% and then charging it up to 100% to see if it makes any difference on the rated range?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

You are talking about 14% loss already which cannot be accurate.

Why not?

And like I said, the only real way to measure this is to charge to 100% and drive until the car can't drive anymore, not when it shows 0%.

I don’t think it is necessary to drive until the vehicle stops to reset the BMS.

That's why Tesla is telling people to drive it below 10% and charge it up to 100% up to 3 times to train the BMS of your actual capacity and reclaim your rated miles.

I’ve done this quite a few times on road trips.

During the life of my vehicle, I’ve taken road trips where I have gone from 100% to about 5% (without stopping for any significant time so uncounted losses are not important) and I’ve paid close attention to the energy on the trip meter.

I assure you there was more energy available when my car was new. I’m at 300 rated miles now, and for a 100% to 5% discharge, I’ll see about 65.5kWh on the trip meter. When the car was new, I would have seen about 69kWh for that same discharge.

You can also verify this by measuring the length of time it takes to charge a vehicle for a given charging setup (same volts, amps), and comparing two vehicles with much different rated range. They will indeed take different amounts of time to charge (lower capacity will charge faster of course). This has been verified here. (You can predict charging time very accurately too (within a couple minutes), since we know what is the charging overhead.)

 

[Freakyguy666]

Your example is very extreme. If you get 100 miles at 100% you probably have more serious issues then degradation. I meant on a healthy pack it doesn't mean anything since that estimation will change with temperature, Tesla updates, and cell inbalance due to your charging habits. And depending on how you drive and road conditions, you might get better results then those estimates or you might not ever achieve it. If you want to know where your battery stands, you either need to drive it from 100% down to 0% on a single drive and see how much energy you used, or use something like scan my Tesla to check your nominal pack value. All I am saying the rated miles don't mean much.

Thanks for correcting your original incorrect statement.

 

[vsansal]

I don’t think it is necessary to drive until the vehicle stops to reset the BMS.

Not to reset the BMS, I meant to measure the real capacity. The numbers you see on the display is what BMS thinks your capacity is. It should be accurate when brand new and might get out of calibration when used and we might be thinking that's degradation.

Check this article. It talks about the same issue for an owner showing 280 miles at 100% and after the service center performs a CAC reset, it shoots up to 310 immediately.

Battery Degradation "fix"? : teslamotors

What do you think about this?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Not to reset the BMS, I meant to measure the real capacity. The numbers you see on the display is what BMS thinks your capacity is. It should be accurate when brand new and might get out of calibration when used and we might be thinking that's degradation.

Check this article. It talks about the same issue for an owner showing 280 miles at 100% and after the service center performs a CAC reset, it shoots up to 310 immediately.

Battery Degradation "fix"? : teslamotors

What do you think about this?

And now he’s back at 271 or whatever...the reset did not help him. It just made the BMS display inaccurate information for a time. They have the CAC estimates for a reason, so if you reset it to its initial condition, it will be incorrect and show the wrong capacity for a period of time.

The CAC can be reset but the BMS will thereafter work to figure out what the actual calculated amp-hour capacity (CAC!) is of the worst brick (again) - they probably don’t want you to go below 20% after a CAC for fear of inadvertently completely discharging (destroying) a weak brick, before the estimates are corrected again (speculation)! So, that worst brick will limit your battery available energy. (96 bricks are in series, so your maximum discharge event energy is limited by your worst set of 46 parallel cells.)

Sure the BMS is estimating, but I believe it is quite accurate. If you don’t believe me (totally reasonable! I’m just a guy on the Internet!) it can be quite easily measured and compared to other users‘ results via charging event durations. It’s not something we need to quibble about - the actual status can be determined relatively accurately if you are curious. (You do have to be careful to make it a valid charging event experiment but it really is not difficult! It is a trivial controlled experiment to set up, especially since it is now no longer winter.)

 

[vsansal]

If you don’t believe me (totally reasonable! I’m just a guy on the Internet!)

I am just hoping you are wrong and I am right. I don't want to belive there are unicorn battery packs out there and even if they are abused they still have less degradation compared to someone babying it. I just don't get how one owner with 130K miles charging to 100% almost daily through superchargers has less then 10% degradation and another owner that has less then 5K miles with more then 10% degradation. How can Tesla produce battery packs with that much quality difference between them? Or is this actually the BMS?

 

[scubastevo80]

I am just hoping you are wrong and I am right. I don't want to belive there are unicorn battery packs out there and even if they are abused they still have less degradation compared to someone babying it. I just don't get how one owner with 130K miles charging to 100% almost daily through superchargers has less then 10% degradation and another owner that has less then 5K miles with more then 10% degradation. How can Tesla produce battery packs with that much quality difference between them? Or is this actually the BMS?

I think much of it is the BMS. I was in the worried camp over the winter when I thought my 1 year old LR AWD had degradation of about 10% (280mi at 100%). I would schedule departure charging for my daily commute, but never get below 60% battery. Since spring, I’ve been driving down to 20% now and again and charging up to 90%. My BMS is now showing about 300-302 at full charge. I think the BMS believes degradation is occurring when we aren’t using a wider range of cell voltage.