Tesla open up the SuC network [in UK]

[FastLaneJB]

Suspect commercial vehicles have a business account rather than the individual drivers paying on a company card.

Just an assumption though.

Maybe but Tesla’s in the business of selling electricity on their Superchargers. They have no reason to turn them away and I don’t think they should. It’s just a case of if the demand is constantly there, need to increase the number of chargers.

 

[HenryT]

Suspect commercial vehicles have a business account rather than the individual drivers paying on a company card.

Just an assumption though.

I think DPD specifically are self employed/franchised drivers so it will be a personal account.

 

[Durzel]

How can they differentiate from a commercial or personal vehicle at the charger?

Commercial vehicles will have to charge somewhere. We need them to deliver stuff to us all. If we are going to a world of EV’s which we are then they have to be able to use chargers.

It’s only an issue if there aren’t enough chargers, if there’s enough then it won’t matter.

I always presumed that CCS had a way of identifying the vehicle that Type-2 - as a dumb charging system - doesn't. Certainly Tesla can and do exclude individual salvage VINs from supercharging, and stop customers in arrears from charging, so there's some data communication going on - with the car reporting to the charger what it is and what it's capable of. I would presume it would therefore be possible for Tesla to exclude a "class" of vehicle somehow.

The Tesla of today, though, is all about revenue streams at any cost. Them opening up the network at all is nothing to do with preserving a USP for their customers. People argue that third-party charging will pay for new sites, which may be true, but it seems more likely to me that it's about a mixture of revenue and access to build new sites (e.g. governments clamping down on restrictive charging).

 

[Jason71]

I always presumed that CCS had a way of identifying the vehicle that Type-2 - as a dumb charging system - doesn't. Certainly Tesla can and do exclude individual salvage VINs from supercharging, and stop customers in arrears from charging, so there's some data communication going on - with the car reporting to the charger what it is and what it's capable of. I would presume it would therefore be possible for Tesla to exclude a "class" of vehicle somehow.

The Tesla of today, though, is all about revenue streams at any cost. Them opening up the network at all is nothing to do with preserving a USP for their customers. People argue that third-party charging will pay for new sites, which may be true, but it seems more likely to me that it's about a mixture of revenue and access to build new sites (e.g. governments clamping down on restrictive charging).

Trafford is very popular because they are charging 33p/42p/69p dependant on time of day for non Teslas. At 8:44pm when @Medved_77 posted its 33p which is about 50p per kwh less than most rapids. I am surprised the queue was not longer!

To be fair I have heard very few cases of Tesla's in the UK being unable to charge due to third parties and many of the opened up sites were either opened up already when we bought our cars or are new sites built since we bought our cars.

If Tesla opened up South Mimms right now or Woodall I think people would have a reasonable right to feel as they had lost something but generally I think Tesla have handled the opening up sensibly by only opening up under utilised sites, new ones or now some expanded ones. Trafford for example had third party access from day one. So we all gained access to it no one lost exclusivity and was worse off.

 

[init6]

I always presumed that CCS had a way of identifying the vehicle that Type-2 - as a dumb charging system - doesn't. Certainly Tesla can and do exclude individual salvage VINs from supercharging, and stop customers in arrears from charging, so there's some data communication going on - with the car reporting to the charger what it is and what it's capable of. I would presume it would therefore be possible for Tesla to exclude a "class" of vehicle somehow.

CCS has a comms protocol that allows data to be sent between the car and the charger. As usual there is a lot of debate about exactly what controls the charging in a Tesla, but the VIN appears to be sent.
Tesla has a proprietary version of the Plug and Charge Protocol (they had theirs before P&C was a thing)

Plug & Charge​

The user-convenient and secure Plug & Charge feature that envisioned with ISO 15118 enables an electric vehicle to automatically identify and authorize itself to a compatible charging station on behalf of the driver, to receive energy for recharging its battery. The only action required by the driver is to plug the charging cable into the EV and/or charging station, because the car and the charger identify themselves to each other by exchanging certificates which were provided beforehand via a certificate pool to facilitate payment.[14] An open test system was started[where?] in November 2021.[15] The proposed standard can be used for both wired (AC and DC charging) and wireless charging for electric vehicles.[16]

Some EV cars support the Plug & Charge standard, including the model year 2021 Porsche Taycan, Mercedes-Benz EQS,[17] Lucid Air, and Ford Mustang Mach-E.[10]

Other electric vehicles could possibly be updated to support the standard, including the Volkswagen ID.4.[18] Some cars need hardware updates.[11]

All Tesla vehicles since 2012 (before the release of ISO 15118-2 in 2014) have a proprietary version of Plug & Charge.[7][11] Other proprietary solutions exist, such as those developed by Paua.[19]

Besides Tesla, alternatives to Plug & Charge exist including "AutoCharge" based on DIN Spec 70121 (Combined Charging System - CCS)[20][21] using the car's fixed MAC address which is not a secure mechanism, however cars from companies like the Volkswagen Group do not have a fixed MAC address and cannot use AutoCharge.[22]

Perhaps someone who has a non-Tesla and uses SuCs could tell us if the charging is tied to a specific vehicle. From what I can see the App just refers to charging a Non-Tesla, rather than say charge my ID4. If the former then it would be hard for Tesla to limit the types of cars using it (although they really should just for getting people on the right side of the SuC )

 

[spdpsba]

Trafford for example had third party access from day one

And there are going to be another 24 new V4 chargers - all open to non-Teslas and no one will lose exclusivity and we all gain access to it.

 

[Jason71]

Perhaps someone who has a non-Tesla and uses SuCs could tell us if the charging is tied to a specific vehicle. From what I can see the App just refers to charging a Non-Tesla, rather than say charge my ID4. If the former then it would be hard for Tesla to limit the types of cars using it (although they really should just for getting people on the right side of the SuC )

I do have a non Tesla but have not used it at the SuC however I know it is not tied to a vehicle. you just put in the location and stall and it starts the charge. That is not to say it could not refuse but as far as we know there are no restrictions except some MG's but that is a software issue not a deliberate exclusion.

 

[Derek25]

CCS has a comms protocol that allows data to be sent between the car and the charger. As usual there is a lot of debate about exactly what controls the charging in a Tesla, but the VIN appears to be sent.
Tesla has a proprietary version of the Plug and Charge Protocol (they had theirs before P&C was a thing)



Perhaps someone who has a non-Tesla and uses SuCs could tell us if the charging is tied to a specific vehicle. From what I can see the App just refers to charging a Non-Tesla, rather than say charge my ID4. If the former then it would be hard for Tesla to limit the types of cars using it (although they really should just for getting people on the right side of the SuC )

You plug in, select the stall in the app and click start charging. It doesn't know the vehicle but it does what any other rapid does and reports the state of charge in the app.

 

[Sean.]

CCS has a comms protocol that allows data to be sent between the car and the charger. As usual there is a lot of debate about exactly what controls the charging in a Tesla, but the VIN appears to be sent.
Tesla has a proprietary version of the Plug and Charge Protocol (they had theirs before P&C was a thing)



Perhaps someone who has a non-Tesla and uses SuCs could tell us if the charging is tied to a specific vehicle. From what I can see the App just refers to charging a Non-Tesla, rather than say charge my ID4. If the former then it would be hard for Tesla to limit the types of cars using it (although they really should just for getting people on the right side of the SuC )

I’ve charged my Taycan variously but only on ad hoc prices rather than through the membership.

I think your question relates to whether membership can be used by various vehicles by the same account holder though?

That I can’t tell you (yet anyway).

 

[WannabeOwner]

That I can’t tell you (yet anyway)

best excuse yet that I've heard for "My other car's a Taycan too" !!

 

[init6]

I’ve charged my Taycan variously but only on ad hoc prices rather than through the membership.

I think your question relates to whether membership can be used by various vehicles by the same account holder though?

That I can’t tell you (yet anyway).

Not quite, I was wondering if when you register to use the SuC do you have to tell Tesla what car you have? Back to the original question, can Tesla tell that you are charging a DPD van rather than your Taycan for example.

 

[Jason71]

Not quite, I was wondering if when you register to use the SuC do you have to tell Tesla what car you have? Back to the original question, can Tesla tell that you are charging a DPD van rather than your Taycan for example.

since we all have Teslas none of us registered with Tesla purely for the purpose of charging a third party vehicle. but we can all do it with our existing accounts so I would say no.
On the V4 you won't even need to register since there is contactless so if they know it will only be via the CCS2.
Things may be different if you buy a subscription but again I doubt anyone on here drives another EV often and far enough to have an SuC subscription for it. Ironically this might literally be the worst place to go to find out that information

 

[init6]

Not everyone here has a Tesla. Some folk have given them up - so will still have the original Tesla account - and some are thinking of moving to Teslas. Some people may have partners or friends who have created an account purely for their own non-tesla.
Perhaps I'm more optimistic than you

 

[Dat37863]

Not quite, I was wondering if when you register to use the SuC do you have to tell Tesla what car you have? Back to the original question, can Tesla tell that you are charging a DPD van rather than your Taycan for example.

No, you don’t have to tell Tesla what car you have.
Yes, probably they can tell what car is connected.
Why would you want to stop a DPD van charging as opposed to any other car/van ?

 

[FastLaneJB]

No they cannot tell if a vehicle is a DPD van or not from a charging cable. Let’s say they can get a VIN, that’s specific to each manufacturer so Tesla isn’t going to know what other makes VIN’s are unless they have a data sharing agreement with them. Now if they have that, they know the make and the model, not who owns the vehicle.

Only way I can think this would work is you’d need a ANPR camera watching each stall and a connection to the DVLA with an agreement that allows you to access the owners information. The Ultra Low Emission Zone around London for instance has that level of access so they know who to bill.

Long story short though, they won’t do it. There’s no reason to do it. As long as you pay, you can charge.

 

[Derek25]

since we all have Teslas none of us registered with Tesla purely for the purpose of charging a third party vehicle. but we can all do it with our existing accounts so I would say no.
On the V4 you won't even need to register since there is contactless so if they know it will only be via the CCS2.
Things may be different if you buy a subscription but again I doubt anyone on here drives another EV often and far enough to have an SuC subscription for it. Ironically this might literally be the worst place to go to find out that information

I subscribed for the last two months and, no, you don't give any details about the car. You pay, you charge.

 

[Sean.]

Not quite, I was wondering if when you register to use the SuC do you have to tell Tesla what car you have? Back to the original question, can Tesla tell that you are charging a DPD van rather than your Taycan for example.

I just use ApplePay (contactless) on the V4s. If you use the app on V2/V3 you just select the site and the stall and that’s that.

That’s the way it works for ad-hoc / non-member pricing and charging but I see that @Derek25 in the post above has confirmed that you can effectively charge any car you want under your membership pricing plan too.

There’s no where to tell them what non-Tesla car is charging in the account that I can see.

 

[Sean.]

For info. Tesla were blocking certain MG cars that were deemed problematic - believe it was the ZS and pre-facelift MG5

 

[Jason71]

I subscribed for the last two months and, no, you don't give any details about the car. You pay, you charge.

Are you getting your moneys worth?

 

[Derek25]

Are you getting your moneys worth?

Yes, I've just been to the south of France and back in an MG4 on the supercharger network