It will be good if they make some money from little used SuC locations and plough that back into increasing SuC at other busy locations. Then it could be win-win... I guess time will tell...
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Tesla open up the SuC network [in UK]
- Thread starter kelvin 660
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phil4
Member
I bought a Tesla for various reasons, but the SC network was right up towards the top. I don't use it daily, I don't rely on it like that. But I do use it a few times a year on longer trips. And it's been brilliant when I've used it. Only once had to queue and wait (10 mins), and always working and simple to use. So it more or less lived up to the reason I'd ranked it up there on the list. Indeed watch practically any youtube review of a Tesla and the SC network is mentioned.
If we fast forward to a near future when any case can use them, regardless of whether it degrades the experience or not, it'll be one less reason to consider a Tesla next time around, and with many more competent EVs out now, perhaps I'll go a different way next time.
If we fast forward to a near future when any case can use them, regardless of whether it degrades the experience or not, it'll be one less reason to consider a Tesla next time around, and with many more competent EVs out now, perhaps I'll go a different way next time.
MrBadger
Badger out
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Probably a bit like the Welsh being called English when a reference is being made about the United Kingdom.
This is broadly my take on it. I probably won't be affected personally, but if I were looking to do a road trip suddenly I would have to think not only about congestion from other Teslas, but however many other EVs, parked however they like so they can charge, etc. It changes the value proposition significantly.
I've also got one eye on depreciation too. Suddenly my car is less valuable since any car with a CCS port can charge on the network.
Not when I did the calculation a few months back, the near enough the same ratio of Tesla on the road to SuperCharger bays in 2021 as 2020. Obviously other cars using larger SuperChargers will change that.
This is exactly the same concern that Model S users had when Model 3's came out, some were quite hostile, however I'm pretty sure that everyone can see there is now a far better SuperCharger network than we had 3 years ago. Gaps have been filled and newer locations are far bigger. There have been growing pains but Tesla do seem to be able to find solutions eventually. Sure the M74 barely copes in holiday season, but I go that way every summer and have yet to have to queue (only place I've ever queued was Woodall when there used to only be 2 with CCS connections).
It's worth bearing in mind that UK Gov has a consultation out that would force network to be open if they want to be a Service Stations, so it's better that Tesla get ahead of this rather than getting into a position where they can't grow the network.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
And not just for future installations. That consultation talks about cancelling all existing exclusivity contracts aka Electric highway and forcing all chargers on motorways to be public aka Tesla. Let's hope they back it up with some more grid capacity because Woodall South for example with its 8xV2 is a nightmare now. Open to everyone and it would be totally overwhelmed. Even without ID3s taking up 2 bays.
pdk42
Active Member
My wife has an ID.3. I posted this today on the UK ID.3 FB page:. I think the value proposition for a Tesla (Model 3 in particular) extends beyond the SuC network. The Tesla's IT is years ahead of the ID.3 / MEB platform.
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Remember when Ecotricity went from 'free' to paid, the moaning was almost as bad as the actual charging network.
The reality is if anyone here actually wants EVs to succeed we need more rapid charging for everyone, and Tesla cannot be allowed to just cater for one brand of cars when often there are ques at other chargers and Tesla chargers are sitting idle. If Tesla doesn't move to opening up the SC network voluntary, legislation will force it.
As for not buying another Tesla, surely what ever EV you buy will benefit from Tesla opening up the SC network, so why all the anger/moaning?? No one forced anyone to buy a Tesla, that is why choice/competition is a good thing for consumers. This move is good for EV adoption, the alternative is we all just go back to combustion cars.
MrBadger
Badger out
Bantam
Member
I am resigned to the fact the SuC network will just be another EV charging network (but branded as Tesla). With the added bonus of being able to navigate/pre condition to the site.
Actually now I think about it, in the regions where they open up the SuC, one USP would be for Tesla to properly implement (and maintain), the in car auto-navigate to charger to include all 3rd party Rapid chargers. Would be good little feature.
Actually now I think about it, in the regions where they open up the SuC, one USP would be for Tesla to properly implement (and maintain), the in car auto-navigate to charger to include all 3rd party Rapid chargers. Would be good little feature.
I'm in two minds about governments forcing companies to open up their IP to other companies. One point of view is, yup it means more people can benefit. The other is why bother investing, innovating and taking a "bet the company" risk when all you need to do is sit on your hands and wait for a Government/political entity to tell your competition to put all that aside "for the greater good". It'll mean that people just won't bother as if they become too good at it, it'll just be taken away. So, in some ways, it stifles innovation(after all why bother), fails to reward risk-taking and slows down the entire thing.
The ideal(naive, yes) is for companies to enter into an innovation race, trying to out develop the rest. Not for one to do all the heavy lifting only for everyone (re: German legacy auto) else who didn't to be given a free ride..
Its just a shame that for the same money as an Eclass, its miles away from it in terms of actual quality.
Given Tesla's current share price/valuation I don't think any one needs to worry Elon is having the same 'concerns' regarding innovation
.In all likelihood if Tesla is seen as been the best company to build out/run rapidchargers it'll probably be like pushing against an open door when Tesla ask for/apply for government grants/help to install more SC, which ultimately will benefit everyone including Tesla owners.
The whole tribalism between EV brands is just utterly mad when you consider pretty much every car on the road today is still combustion powered. Even today more people will be buying £50k+ brand new combustion cars than all the EVs for sale on the market put together, thats despite the very clear changes in climate and the circus going on in Glasgow at present.
If Tesla opening up the SC network means more EVs get sold, that is a fantastic news in my book.
Masklin
Member
It probably does make sense to ultimately open up the SC network.
It probably doesn't make sense to do it on a wide scale whilst it's incompatible with many other vehicles. Not sure potentially to almost certainly reducing capacity at any given location when non Tesla vehicles connect is the best way forward for anyone. I look forward to reading about the first supercharger rage reports in due course, regrettably.
It probably doesn't make sense to do it on a wide scale whilst it's incompatible with many other vehicles. Not sure potentially to almost certainly reducing capacity at any given location when non Tesla vehicles connect is the best way forward for anyone. I look forward to reading about the first supercharger rage reports in due course, regrettably.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
I can answer that for you.
As a wise man ( john Finemore) once ( more or less) said Capitalism is like fire. Harness it and it can do great things. Heat your house, cook your food etc. But fail to contain it and it will burn your house down.
Tesla had the foresight to set up the SuC network. Arguably they had no choice, but either way they did it and, partially as a result they are now the No1 EV manufacture and EM is worth $300billion. So they have seen a decent return on their investment. But who is to say when that return is too great and is becoming bad fo the society in general. The answer, governments. Left to their own devices, if they could, Tesla would dominate EV production and Charging networks to the detriment of society in general. It is not good when one commercial entities gets too much market share. That is why we have a monopolies and mergers commission.
Are we in that position with Tesla? probably generally no. But there are some strategic locations, principally motorway services, Where it could be argued that it is bad for EV adoption for Teslas private network to act as a barrier to more public chargers. principally by consuming all of the available power. Should the govt just get its act together and put in more grid connections? probably but motorway services are highly regulated anyway since each one is a mini monopoly and exists only at the grace of the govt who owns the roads from which they derive their existence. E.g. things like 24 hour free toilet facilities are mandatory. So if they want to throw in a few new regs for motorway services that does not seem like 1984 just yet.
Masklin
Member
Hmmmm, I'm not sure utilities are the best example to hang one's virtues of capitalism hat on
phil4
Member
And I get that.
But there's a difference between those at Motorway services, and, for example the ones Elveden/Thetford forest. And I'm not saying for one second it'll annoy me if they do this... More that I don't think it's going to help Tesla sell more cars, and indeed my next car if they do this may well not be a Tesla.
At the end of the day though, Elon couldn't care less what I think, and I don't blame him.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Of course the major difference is Model 3s still contribute to subsidizing the supercharger network even when the car doesn't use the network. This is not true of other EVs. From other networks, per use fees, even ones significantly higher than Tesla is charging, is not enough to pay for the charging network.
I presume Tesla is looking to get some kind of government money for some of this or it doesn't make sense (that was what prompted this whole thing AFAIK in the US at least, as there is an infrastructure bill that Tesla wants in). So some locations are being guinea pigs for now for Tesla to explore the idea.
Masklin
Member
Just saw a possibly interesting quote from Tesla on the Autoblog site…
”Charging prices for non-Tesla drivers will include extra costs to support a broad range of vehicles and site adjustments to accommodate these vehicles, Tesla said. The price to charge can be lowered with a charging membership, it added.
"This move directly supports our mission to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy," the company said.”
The site adjustment comment suggesting that some sort of modifications are going to be made to better accommodate the wide variety of vehicles that may be using Superchargers going forward?
”Charging prices for non-Tesla drivers will include extra costs to support a broad range of vehicles and site adjustments to accommodate these vehicles, Tesla said. The price to charge can be lowered with a charging membership, it added.
"This move directly supports our mission to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy," the company said.”
The site adjustment comment suggesting that some sort of modifications are going to be made to better accommodate the wide variety of vehicles that may be using Superchargers going forward?
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