Tesla open up the SuC network [in UK]

[Xdama]

It's standard practice already. People are paying different rates depending on subscriptions and deals linked to particular brands.

I’m not saying it isn’t….now. But EV are still in the minority vs ICE. Once we’re all forced into EV then the ball game changes. Yes there’s price difference based on location, supplier etc of diesel/petrol but not based on car make or model. You can’t buy a subscription for Tesco fuel or BP can you.
So once the entire car owning population is driving EV then HMG would surely look the way they are fuelled ie, has to be a level playing field for all, at all locations
Don’t get me wrong it wouldn’t stop me looking at other makes when it comes to the end of my current lease. I may even have a last hurrah in a dirty great V8 just for the hell of it

 

[Tony Hoyle]

I’d make a guess HMG will get involved at some point in the future. Just because a carmaker part owns something doesn’t necessarily give it the right to better costs for it’s own customers. Pretty sure car manufacturers hold shares in BP, Shell etc but you don’t get reduced costs at any fuel station for driving a particular manufacturers ICE vehicle. It’s unfair competition for other manufacturers in essence.

What's unfair about it? Any manufacturer can do the same.

Owning something is precisely what gives it the ability to give better costs for their own customers. That would be the point of owning it.

Also if you think this government is going to get in the way of a large company making money I've got bad news...

 

[gangzoom]

Guess this statement will have to change on Tesla website then
“The goal of the Supercharger network is to enable freedom of travel for Tesla owners at a fraction of the cost of gasoline.”

Actually Tesla's mission statement from day one has been.....

'to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible. '

Personally I find it very hard for anyone to argue against opening up the SC next work if Tesla is aiming to deliver on their mission statement.

 

[Adopado]

I’m not saying it isn’t….now. But EV are still in the minority vs ICE. Once we’re all forced into EV then the ball game changes. Yes there’s price difference based on location, supplier etc of diesel/petrol but not based on car make or model. You can’t buy a subscription for Tesco fuel or BP can you.
So once the entire car owning population is driving EV then HMG would surely look the way they are fuelled ie, has to be a level playing field for all, at all locations

I'm not sure this is any different to a company having an account with a particular garage with their own pricing deal. Or you paying your electricity bill at a different price to someone else.

 

[Jason71]

What is interesting is why 100% in the Netherlands but zero in other countries?
a) Is there lots of charging infrastructure in the Netherlands so not much of a USP anyway there? so why not try to make more money no harm no foul?
b) there are plenty more sites planned so is there some public money up for grabs but only if its a public network?
c) experiment to find out how it affects sales?
d) all of the above or something else?

 

[Xdama]

What's unfair about it? Any manufacturer can do the same.

Owning something is precisely what gives it the ability to give better costs for their own customers. That would be the point of owning it.

Also if you think this government is going to get in the way of a large company making money I've got bad news...

So in your eyes then if you owned a Volvo and pulled into the garage forecourt to fill up with diesel or petrol and a bloke next to you pulled up in a BMW, you would have no issue with paying more per litre for fuel than he does? Garage forecourts by law have to show a cost (for all) on a sign visible from the road. Why would HMG not make it so for EV in the future?

It doesn't matter what government it is, this shower or the next shower. They want control and their pound of flesh, you can't be a fat piggy if you don't eat can you lol.

As I said earlier, windfarm operators are NOT allowed to own all the assets on a windfarm, they have to sell off part of it due to competition laws. This is why the electricity network is not all owned by National Grid, it gets split down to DNO then electricity supply companies. The DNO have no influence in NG nor do they have influence with the production companies. It's a Monopolies Commission issue, if one operator has full control over an asset (read Tesla or Russian gas here), they can shut it down at a whim as has been proven by current rocketing energy prices.
That is my reasoning for saying the above. Governments like to play the "fairness card" why do you think we have laws on racism, sexism, gender, health etc etc. it's all the same thing.
You cannot discriminate against any other manufacturer which is what biased pricing structure are. I'm not saying it will happen immediately but in all probability it will in the future.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

BP extract oil and sell it to BP who claim because BP has increased the wholesale price BP needs to charge more on the forecourt. One company owns the entire production line so they can profit at each point. Same with electricity and EON. There are no laws against that. It's the free market economy. There probably *should* be, but you'd have to change the entire western system for that to change.

This has nothing to do with monopolies. None of these companies have monopoiles.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

So in your eyes then if you owned a Volvo and pulled into the garage forecourt to fill up with diesel or petrol and a bloke next to you pulled up in a BMW, you would have no issue with paying more per litre for fuel than he does?

Fuel cards are a thing.

If BMW decided to as part of their package discounted fuel on new cars, why shouldn't they?

 

[Dasher]

What is interesting is why 100% in the Netherlands but zero in other countries?

I did a quick search around, trying to get a feel for the differences between the Netherlands and GB. Looking only at fast/ultrafast charge point sites, I think that there are roughly -
34 Tesla Supercharger sites in the Netherlands, and 79 in GB
120 Fastned sites in the Netherlands, and 7 in GB
11 Ionity sites in the Netherlands, and 16 in GB
18 Allego sites in the Netherlands, and none in GB
No Gridserve Forecourts in the Netherlands, and 1 currently in GB

This ignores the much higher numbers of Ecotricity/Gridserve, Newmotion/Shell slower sites in both countries. I don't know the relative numbers of Teslas, but GB is about 5 times the area of the Netherlands, albeit with larger less populated areas, probably.

Although these numbers are pretty rough, they suggest that the density of fast and ultrafast sites is much higher in the Netherlands, with more evolved competition. If Gridserve, Ionity and Fastned can expand rapidly in GB, then there might be some equivalence, but I think that we are quite a long way from that.

 

[Xdama]

BP extract oil and sell it to BP who claim because BP has increased the wholesale price BP needs to charge more on the forecourt. One company owns the entire production line so they can profit at each point. Same with electricity and EON. There are no laws against that. It's the free market economy. There probably *should* be, but you'd have to change the entire western system for that to change.

This has nothing to do with monopolies. None of these companies have monopoiles.

But they do NOT price differently according to make of car, the price at the pump is the same for every customer, regardless of make of car. EON don't own the whole network, they buy from National Grid who buy from production companies.

 

[Xdama]

Fuel cards are a thing.

If BMW decided to as part of their package discounted fuel on new cars, why shouldn't they?

That's an entirely different ball game, it would be an optional extra not enforced on the buyer. Charging different prices for the same product at the same place to different customers is a move back to bartering for a pig from your local farmer. Whoever barters best gets the best price lol.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

The price is *not* the same for every customer.

Fuel cards are a thing.
Tesco for a long time would offer 10p a litre off fuel on their forecourt if you spent £60 in store.
Esso charge less for NHS workers.

There are no laws about charging different people different amounts, unless that's for protected reasons. You cannot have a Gay discount. You can have a Red Hair discount.

Also, we're on a car forum. Have you ever bought a car? Outside Tesla who stick rigidly to price lists I doubt any two customers have paid the same for the same car.

 

[qwickshot]

Think of it as the car coming with a subscription instead of differentiating based on manufacturer.

The price for ionity is the same regardless of which car you turn up in.

The difference is that if you own a car from certain manufacturers, you get your subscription included for a set number of years. Sometimes that just one year, others it’s 3 or 4.

Tesla you get a lifetime subscription thrown in for the Tesla supercharger network. There is nothing stopping Tesla offering that to others in exchange for some money.

For either network, if you don’t have e a subscription, you pay more. I think BP pulse is the same as well buy they are not tied to any manufacturer for a bundled subscription.

 

[Xdama]

The price is *not* the same for every customer.

Fuel cards are a thing.
Tesco for a long time would offer 10p a litre off fuel on their forecourt if you spent £60 in store.
Esso charge less for NHS workers.

There are no laws about charging different people different amounts, unless that's for protected reasons. You cannot have a Gay discount. You can have a Red Hair discount.

Also, we're on a car forum. Have you ever bought a car? Outside Tesla who stick rigidly to price lists I doubt any two customers have paid the same for the same car.

Again different things, none are based on the manufacturer of your vehicle.
Yes I’ve bought many cars both new and used and bartered for them all but all had a list price. The bartering was generally on getting freebies such as mats, discounted finance etc. I have never entered a garage and bartered for fuel though, have you? There’d be some bloody long queues if everyone was bartering the cost per litre.

 

[Xdama]

Think of it as the car coming with a subscription instead of differentiating based on manufacturer.

The price for ionity is the same regardless of which car you turn up in.

The difference is that if you own a car from certain manufacturers, you get your subscription included for a set number of years. Sometimes that just one year, others it’s 3 or 4.

Tesla you get a lifetime subscription thrown in for the Tesla supercharger network. There is nothing stopping Tesla offering that to others in exchange for some money.

For either network, if you don’t have e a subscription, you pay more. I think BP pulse is the same as well buy they are not tied to any manufacturer for a bundled subscription.

That I understand lol. However I still think it will change in the future.
I’m wondering when the first murder will occur over another car owner taking 2 spaces to be honest. Or another car owner giving some cash to fill on a Tesla owner account

 

[interbear]

It's a nominal difference, and can be reduced by paying a monthly fee.

From InsideEvs.com:

That single use charge at €0.57 is cheaper than the unit rate Ionity would charge me as a Tesla driver on their fast chargers in the UK (£0.69). So, not a bad deal really for occasional use.

Honestly, if this happens in the UK, it would almost certainly propel me to buy an alternative non Tesla car next time I change.

 

[Mrklaw]

its interesting to hear how many people seemed to only buy a tesla because of the superchargers. All things being equal (which it looks like they might soon be) - what were your options at the time, and what are your options now?

For me when I bought last year superchargers were a comfort blanket but the car itself still seemed to be in the sweet spot in terms of range/efficiency/price. Now? Perhaps I'd have a VAG SUV on the shortlist (Q4 or Enyaq), the i4 if it was closer to £50k with the main options, maybe I'm missing some but it while it is a longer list than before, its by no means a long list.

 

[cryo]

Not sure I see him having that much leverage, with regards to the UK. The govt could just legislate chargers as public interest and mandate them being open to all.

I cannot see the UK government legislating against a very successful US companies chargers as public interest under any circumstances especially when the same UK government has abysmally failed to get a reliable charging network set up in the UK. If you legislate against success you quickly become an unsuccessful country, Zimbabwe and farming comes to mind. Mmm, thinking about it with present government you could be correct.

 

[Durzel]

its interesting to hear how many people seemed to only buy a tesla because of the superchargers. All things being equal (which it looks like they might soon be) - what were your options at the time, and what are your options now?

For me when I bought last year superchargers were a comfort blanket but the car itself still seemed to be in the sweet spot in terms of range/efficiency/price. Now? Perhaps I'd have a VAG SUV on the shortlist (Q4 or Enyaq), the i4 if it was closer to £50k with the main options, maybe I'm missing some but it while it is a longer list than before, its by no means a long list.

It's not just what you happen to need or use, it's what whoever you might be hoping to sell the car to needs or uses too. Obviously this is academic with leasing.

I don't need to use supercharging, but before this gets rolled out I could have relied on a larger market of buyers who were looking at Teslas because they needed to. That won't be the case afterwards, or it won't be to the same extent at least.

 

[Xdama]

I cannot see the UK government legislating against a very successful US companies chargers as public interest under any circumstances especially when the same UK government has abysmally failed to get a reliable charging network set up in the UK. If you legislate against success you quickly become an unsuccessful country, Zimbabwe and farming comes to mind. Mmm, thinking about it with present government you could be correct.

I don't think we should be diverging into political affilations personally. All politicians / governments are bloody useless to be fair. The infrastructure has been a major issue for 10's of years and is realistically nothing to do with government as NG is a privately owned company as are all the DNO. If the infrastructure isn't there then no amount of legislation is going to change it.