Tesla Opens Its Patents To Boost Electric Car Adoption

[Ludus]

Glad somebody posted the Tesla blog link. The focus of this thread on Superchargers was puzzling. The core Tesla patents are about the modifications to the 18650 cells that simplify them removing thermal safety features and how the pack then manages them and eliminates the need for the cell features. Nobody else does it that way and so far it's the only proven way to achieve the sort of performance Tesla gets with model S. That approach also leads to the flat battery packs that lower center of gravity and are amenable to rapid swaps.

I'm curious if this is really an invitation to major competitors to go ahead and reverse engineer and build clones. If they did of course they would still be years behind and run into the same limits on batteries that Tesla is struggling with now.

It's another one of those surprising moves that will take awhile to really appreciate.

Does it also apply to other potential users of Tesla style batteries/packs? Rec vehicles? Lawnmowers?

The Tesla official future is one with hundreds of gigafactories all over the world. I suspect open sourcing the fundamental tech is a step toward making that more plausible. Despite the astonishing success of model S nobody is seriously working to emulate it. BMW i8 is more a Fisker done competently, it's a hybrid with a powerful IC engine and a small electric motor. It may prove fairly hard to get them to take up Tesla's offer until the model is a proven success with gen3 and the gigafactory working, but knowing that Tesla's approach is open source will change the discussion at competitors as that gets closer.

 

[Doug_G]

The focus of this thread on Superchargers was puzzling.

I have renamed the thread in light of the fact that Tesla is opening ALL its patents. -mod

 

[SebastianR]

I think that's a brilliant move - let's examine for a second why:

1) The key danger to Tesla early on was that traditional car companies find a way to squash Tesla by copying the technology, flooding the market for a few years and then stopping EVs all together (similar to some of the EV1 strategies employed by GM). This danger is clearly over.

2) Tesla hoped that manufacturing a viable electric car could be threat enough to compel other established car companies to follow suit. This clearly didn't happen yet. One little Tesla (with 40k cars a year) is not enough to move the GMs, VWs and Toyotas of this world. The scale is just not there.

3) So what is better than one Tesla? Right, two, three, four Tesla Motors: I clearly see this move geared towards the Samsungs, Tatas etc. of this world that could move in now and apply pressure to the established players.

Just consider: a significant portion of the global car market will be dominated by what happens in China. This move makes it more likely for Tesla to be a de-facto standard in China and jump-starting the domestic e-car production there. If the first Tesla-based car comes out of Chine GM, Volkswagen etc. are surely moving as fast as they can: that's where the money is made, that's where the smog is horrendous and this is where local government authorities are very keen on establishing domestic players.

 

[Trev Page]

So he says.
The sky is falling, tesla is doomed, big auto Will now make a tesla killer! Not.

Unfortunately, not a single competitive car will come bacause of this.
Absence of patent protection doesn't make up for absence of will.

+1 on that. Just because TM releases their patents unencumbered doesn't mean we will see EVs with the same technology tomorrow. It takes several years to develop a new car, Tesla is certainly not immune to that fact either as we all know.

 

[qwk]

So he says.
The sky is falling, tesla is doomed, big auto Will now make a tesla killer! Not.

Unfortunately, not a single competitive car will come bacause of this.
Absence of patent protection doesn't make up for absence of will.

Spot on. The existing automakers will go Bankrupt far before they make a car competitive to what Tesla puts out. This is pretty much guaranteed.

 

[aznt1217]

I don't think it's a coincidence that this came out shortly after the BMW i3 release. I can totally see it happening... Elon probably saw an i3 recently and was like wow... after 7 years this is the junk you come out with? a 40kwh Model S is infinitely better.

 

[qwk]

I don't think it's a coincidence that this came out shortly after the BMW i3 release. I can totally see it happening... Elon probably saw an i3 recently and was like wow... after 7 years this is the junk you come out with? a 40kwh Model S is infinitely better.

In one of the interviews Elon, and JB were asked what they thought of the i3. They laughed.....

 

[RadicalIgnorant]

Hi

I find one importand argument on this thread with which I have to agree. Even if patents are free it will take some decent amount of time for other players to change it into design and then to prepare production line. That's worth to remember. They probably could invent something themselves in not much different time-frame. But that will help others, like Chineese, who don't have so much R&D power.

But there is other thing, which first came to my mind after reading tesla blog. What's needed to make best cars? Best engineers! For who will wan't work most briliant? For company which want only to make profit or for company which want to "save the world"?! By such a policy Elon can be sure that most of the best superstar designers and inventors will apply for job at Tesla. So then they will have great enough advantage to win some part of the market. Is it better to have better team (future designs) or protected past designs (patents)?

I'm not sure if that was the reasoning behind this decision but I'm very sure that great part of all Musks successes is due to his goals which attract most talented people. Rocket science or car making are not lonely wolf games, so you need a large team, but they aren't also fast-food bussiness - you won't build advantage by having bigger team, you need better team. And, to say the last, Elon (and his team) has plenty of ideas, so no matter what if they will get best people they will do something amazing (VTOL electrical jet? bussiness energy storage systems? hyperloops? ...) And for sure, to his great advantage, he is not short time visioner.

Cheers

 

[Liz G]

I think this is brilliant.

If the automakers do nothing as is likely to happen. Tesla looks good and automakers don't have a leg to stand on.

If the automakers do take this opportunity to build viable EV's, then Tesla will be uniquely positioned to supply batteries from the Gigafactory, giving yet another revenue stream.

Somebody wins either way

 

[TonyWilliams]

Here is one way it is brilliant... name recognition around the world. I'm here in London watch a news blurb on BBC.

I'm going to guess that a foreign car maker like Tesla doesn't normally make the news here and since Tesla doesn't advertise, this is just one of many ways to get the word out.

 

[gameon]

Is it a desperate move to make EV acceptance at higher level? It looks like other car manufacturers are not adopting EV or taking it seriously. Hyundai rolled out first Fuel-cell car in CA (also installing more stations). I am in between waiting for something cheaper and reliable for long run.

 

[dmckinstry]

If the automakers do nothing as is likely to happen. Tesla looks good and automakers don't have a leg to stand on.

Somebody wins either way

I suspect it's partly his way of telling the other automakers to put up or shut up.

They will probably do neither, but the world will see that they're mostly hot air with their feeble attempts at making good EVs.

OTOH if they do accept his challenge he will have accomplished what he wants.

 

[Tasdevil]

The world is still limited by batteries.
Nothing changes.
Also I think tesla have more up their sleeve and any company that copies another companies car that is already out on the road is 10years behind.

 

[Chickenlittle]

Is it a desperate move to make EV acceptance at higher level? It looks like other car manufacturers are not adopting EV or taking it seriously. Hyundai rolled out first Fuel-cell car in CA (also installing more stations). I am in between waiting for something cheaper and reliable for long run.

No it's not a desperate move, it's a supremely confident move that points out how comfortable they are in their abilities.

 

[yngwie_2012]

First reaction on the patent move by BMW!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/13/bmw-tesla-motors-idUSWEB00OCX20140613

 

[constraint]

The world is still limited by batteries.
Nothing changes.
Also I think tesla have more up their sleeve and any company that copies another companies car that is already out on the road is 10years behind.

Tesla success formula is pretty simple. Put a big battery in the car and liquid cool it. With a big battery you have the potential for a lot of power so put a big inverter/motor in it. Now you have range acceleration and better battery life. Granted the S is a good car for other reasons but on the EV front thats the just of it.

Now there may be some particular patents about how Tesla specifically does it. But at the heart of the success its bigger battery packs and upgrades to the car to make people think the increased price tag is commensurate with somewhat higher quality vehicle. Other manufactures today are already building EV's without Tesla's patent on how to better manage thermal runaway in the pack. Unfortunately every other EV today is an 80 mile (sub) compact car and most of those cars are sold only in Carb states. The leaf imho is actually trying to sell cars, but they are stuck with their 24kwh pack formula for the time being. BMW is trying a higher quality interior and relatively decent 0-60 times to lure customers to the "ultimate driving machine" brand but is still limited to 80 miles in a $40,000 sub compact.

If Ford were to take say an MKZ/Fusion and put 50kwh pack at the base of the car and put some actual muscle behind selling the car it would be a relative success. It would have close to 200 ev miles, be cheaper then a Tesla and be a comfortable car that a 30-80 year old would be comfortable driving. Ford doesn't need a Tesla patent to accomplish this, merely the will and desire which it doesnt have.

 

[WarpedOne]

Beside all that it'd also need a good source of batteries.
I don't see a single battery factory standing idle waiting for customers to come shopping cells.

It is one thing to make a thousand 20kWh cars per year. 20kWh x 1k = 2 MWh of batteries
It is a whole another ball game producing 50 thousand 50kWh cars per year. 50kWh x 50k = 2,5 GWh of batteries

Even tesla was and probably still is battery supply limited. They ramp up their production as fast as panasonic can ramp up cell production and deliver them to fremont.

 

[Tasdevil]

Why Elon Musk Just Opened Up All of Tesla's Patents : The New Yorker

 

[SebastianR]

Why Elon Musk Just Opened Up All of Tesla's Patents : The New Yorker

Interesting article, but I feel it is missing the point: I'm not sure if established car makers are the key target for this move ("helping Ford making better batteries"). The established car makers didn't react to Tesla eating their lunch in the luxury segment and lack of will can't be compensated by open patents.

I see the university crew, that wants to start-up a new battery venture, the independent company that wants to create replacement battery packs for Roadsters and of course the Samsungs, Panasonics, Tatas etc. of this world as the ones that could jump on this: The ICE problem is bigger than just GM, Toyota and VW: it is the whole ICE infrastructure. And if by giving up patents, you allow the infrastructure to enter into the market.

I think we will quickly see that Tesla will not fight the dealership fight alone any longer: If you have SME be part of the industry, the currently lopsided distribution of state-level voices in support for / against electric cars will be rectified soon.

 

[malcolm]

Amazing few days. And while the BMW talks are encouraging I agree with some earlier posts that real developments are likely to come from companies outside the traditional auto industries. Conglomerates such as General Electric for example. This move from Tesla really opens up the field.