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Tesla ranks 2nd worst in Consumer reports reliability survey
- Thread starter stcptl
- Start date
Why post this? Because your individual anecdotal experience is scientific evidence and representative of vehicle makes in general?
Blue Stuff
Member
Thanks for posting. So Tesla's warranty claims rate has been running steady since 2nd half of 2016. And they are significantly lower than Ford and GM so, of course, I wonder how they calculate the numbers. Tesla has a different warranty model as it doesn't have dealers that they need to reimburse.
Why post your crap link from a company funded by Oil & Gas automotive? You think your link is based on scientific evidence? You think they sample every satisfied consumers and don’t focus on dissatisfied consumers posting online?
Thank you, it is a very interesting data.
1) Beginning in 2018 Ford is selling more and more junk
2) Something massive happened to GM in 1/2 quarter of 2020. Could be recalls, could be COVID.
3) Tesla is doing better than Ford and GM on repairs per vehicle. But those repairs seem to be rather expensive.
4) Interestingly, Tesla is steadily decreasing the cost of warranty repair per vehicle. This could be due to
a) more service centers
b) more cars to repair -> more efficiency
c) making parts cheaper. This was recently corroborated by a Tesla certified repair shop. Tesla parts are surprisingly inexpensive now, much less expensive than, say Audi. Also, the delivery times that recently were 14 days as a rule of thumb are typically faster now, sometimes just a few days.
AquaY
Member
I think you quoted me for your reply in error. For your post makes no sense in reply to mineWhy is it so important that CR give favorable reviews? I guess this is what I am not understanding. It’s like Car and Drivers top 10 or COTY or NATOY, it’s all garbage. At the end of the day you buy what you want and defend your brand if you choose too. Personally I am glad I have no brand loyalty which makes it easier for me to laugh and move on. People who actually look at CR before making a decision are slowly dying anyway, CR end of times is near.
The most satisfying cars guess who’s on the list?
The Cars People Love Most - Consumer Reports
Consumer Reports' latest owner satisfaction survey reveals the cars people love most. Most and least satisfying cars are listed.www.consumerreports.org
Should we believe it? Or should we question their methods and come up with a theory that some Tesla fanboy wrote it?
The important takeaway is the trend. The rates have been stable and their warranty costs have been decreasing.
2018 was the release of the new Mustang GT with the updated Coyote V8 which was (and likely still is) a problematic engine. The forums were buzzing with ticking / engine block issues with Ford handing them out like candy. And the warranty replacements were also problematic for many. Then the Voodoo issues (high oil consumption) with the GT 350 came a year later if my memory serves me right. Add to that the MT82 tranny and AC evaporator defects, as well as all sorts of powertrain issues in between. So if I had to guess, I'd say all of the above were responsible for the 2018 increase.
From what I can tell, CR also weights by time. So some problems on older cars don’t count as much as problems on the 1 year old cars. But, yes, as I said in one of my earlier posts, their weighting scheme is a mystery.
As far as the Mach E, the other thing CR does is if they don’t have enough reports on a new model, they will give the manufacturer the benefit of the doubt and use data from similar models. That is how I got burned on my VW purchase using CR data, and how the Mach E ratings will go down a lot as they get real data. Like I said before, CR is only useful if you are buying used.
Time will tell on those Model 3 control arm issues. Depends on if the sealant fix they incorporated into production is long lasting or not.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
The ratings are relative and compared to cars of the same age. Older cars are expected to have more problems so a 5 year old car with problems can still be above average if it has fewer problems than all the other 5 year old cars.
Unfortunately, CR is right. Out of 5 months I owned brand new Tesla Y, it was three months in repair. At the end Tesla bought it back without calling it a lemon. They gave me two loaners. The first one had severe problem with computer. Another one was leaking on passenger feet when it was raining. Highest owner satisfaction rate is self-delusion
Unfortunately several stock owners here view negative press as an attack on their money and Elon Musk.
Unfortunately, when I hear 5 minutes about only the errors FSD do on a 1h drive through Manatthan and they never mention once the incredible 200 good decision making the FSD made, I only see blatant try to spread a false narrative about the technology. If you focus 5 minutes on the 2 mistakes and avoid talking about the 200 great ones, you are biased toward statu quo.
You mean like the time Toyota Floor Mats got stuck causing crashes and they never focused on the good parts about Toyota?
Every manufacturer gets it, it’s not just a Tesla thing.
No one ever focuses on the good aspects of anything , it doesn’t sell. If you are happy with the way FSD performs then use it, send Elon comments on how it’s perfect. One day it will be perfect and these media outlets will tell how it’s the greatest thing since slice bread.
So they bought back your car and made you whole, and in the interim while being repaired, they loaned you 2 Model Ys? Sounds like excellent customer service to me. I find it hard to believe your were unlucky 3 times in a row though.
In the meantime some people will believe the negative media narrative and some will continue driving without driving assist feature and will end up falling asleep in front of the wheel and will dit from face on collision or driving off the road.
Toyota floor mat story didn’t prevent people from using the brake, it did not cause unecessary deaths. A negative campaign on a feature that prevents death does have indirect impacts on rate if adoption and will cause people to die from misinformation. It is not the same result in the end.
Looking at the demand Tesla has right now, I don’t think the negative media will bother them too much.
Tesla will be just fine.
Yes I know Tesla will be just fine, I don’t have concerns about Tesla success. I have concerns on how Medias made fake news and alternated facts so common than now Biden is spreading alternate facts bout Marry Barra who supposedly electrified the whole World.
Was there ever a time when Ford wasn't selling junk? The "Fix Or Repair Daily" meme goes back at least to the 1980's and I suspect it goes back to the days of Henry himself.
I think you're right. I own a nice chunk of TSLA and I regard bad press as a wake-up call to Tesla to make improvements. Just because it's the best car on the road doesn't mean it's as good as it could be.
My feelings about Elon are mixed: he's said and done some unconscionable things, but he also made EVs main stream. He's a self-promoter and a liar, but he's responsible for a lot of progress. So I neither worship nor hate him.
All it takes is one mistake to kill you. A 1% mistake rate is far too high for FSD. As long as they call it "FSD" (which is supposed to mean full self-driving) then every mistake needs to be reported. When they stop calling it FSD and admit that they are many years away from a car that truly drives itself, then they can talk about the things it does well. EAP, for example, is not FSD and does not aspire to be FSD and will always be just a driver-assist. EAP works wonderfully well, when used as intended, which is driver-supervised partial self-driving. When they admit that this is what City Streets is, rather than calling it FSD, then the things it does well, rather than its mistakes, will become the news.
Warranty Week uses direct reported OEM financial data. Their reports really are not shaded, IME,and I've been using their products since before Tesla existed. However:
1. Warranty accruals are highest for new products because the actuarial have no basis to establish future claims so the are VERY conservative. As a model ages and becomes more easily assessed by actuaries the accruals become more accurate and nearly always lower. That caused over-accruals for Tesla and continues to do so today as models change with new technologies and new factories plus unprecedented growth. Actuaries hate, HATE, unpredcability.
2. Totally separately, warranty accruals are established as a reserve upon vehicle or other product delivery. IN high growth the reserves almost always grow much faster than do claims because the warranty reserves cover the entire warranty period.
3. When adjusted to link fleet age with claims against reserves (this is very difficult because the detailed tracking data is rarely available for any product) it seems quite likely that Tesla still has much mower claims than do other automotive companies. (All my data on this is proprietary so I will not share it). If my information is correct there are three primary reasons why Tesla warranty cost remains lower than do other automotive OEMs: First, Tesla OTA do address actual problem areas, enhanced durability data and improved operational reliability. Further, OTA can be and is used to make what would be repairs for other OEM. Second, Tesla vehicle reliability has steadily improved with time. Anybody who drone a 2012 Model S and a 2021 Model S understands that nominally the same car has little commonality with the componentes of the new ones. Failures have steadily reduced, thus warranty costs. Third, as Tesla has grown they ahem steadily managed to improve suppliers, designs and quality control so the probability of major defects has dramatically reduced. Fourth, as manufacturing has improved and volumes have increased almost every major process has been enhanced and production volumes grown more precise. In specifics, Front and rear casts of Model Y are reducing parts counts by hundreds. reducing parts reduces failure. Battery packs and all powertrain components are now shared among multiple products. For example, eery Tesla model shares the same operating system, vastly reducing development cost and problem areas. Another example, motors are shared between Tesla models and even SpaceX, improving quality, decreasing manufacturing costs and development costs.
All of that ends out reducing warranty claims to mostly externally produced and supplied parts such as airbags, most screens and myriad other components. The cost fo those warranty claims is normally devolved to the supplier. That does not help the customer with the failure, but it definitely places quality control focus in every failure area.
The remaining serious issue si that the torrid growth rate of Tesla requires commensurate customer service improvements, and those are usually more difficult to accomplish. To the extent that Tesla can continue reducing defects this will be a virtuous cycle.
Now we cope with Airbag replacement on some new vehicles, continuing screen issues and periodic new technology imperfections issues such as the recent Octovalve winter issues. Luckily these are rapidly decreasing number and frequency, which does not provide comfort for the affected by problems.
Sadly for me have had multiple vehicles replaced or repurchased by manufacturers. All four were new technology failures. When two famous German brands were among them and the other two were famed for high quality it is personally obvious to me that there are Lemons! Everyone, including Tesla, can have them.
I regard Tesla as the best of them all. That does not make me less concerned of service, sales and repair weaknesses. On the contrary, it just raises my expectations. In my opinion that is what Tesla is all about.
Now I shall soon order another Tesla.
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