Tesla ranks 2nd worst in Consumer reports reliability survey

[OrthoSurg]

Was there ever a time when Ford wasn't selling junk? The "Fix Or Repair Daily" meme goes back at least to the 1980's and I suspect it goes back to the days of Henry himself.



I think you're right. I own a nice chunk of TSLA and I regard bad press as a wake-up call to Tesla to make improvements. Just because it's the best car on the road doesn't mean it's as good as it could be.

My feelings about Elon are mixed: he's said and done some unconscionable things, but he also made EVs main stream. He's a self-promoter and a liar, but he's responsible for a lot of progress. So I neither worship nor hate him.



All it takes is one mistake to kill you. A 1% mistake rate is far too high for FSD. As long as they call it "FSD" (which is supposed to mean full self-driving) then every mistake needs to be reported. When they stop calling it FSD and admit that they are many years away from a car that truly drives itself, then they can talk about the things it does well. EAP, for example, is not FSD and does not aspire to be FSD and will always be just a driver-assist. EAP works wonderfully well, when used as intended, which is driver-supervised partial self-driving. When they admit that this is what City Streets is, rather than calling it FSD, then the things it does well, rather than its mistakes, will become the news.

This is an excellent point.
it should be called SSD
Supervised Self Driving

 

[Need]

You're one of the only members who posted about a yellow Model 3 screen. Anyone else?

I just noticed it about 1 to 2 months ago. My M3 was August 2018 build, so it took about 3 years for the ring to form. It took about 1.5 to 2 years for the ring to show in our Model X. Below is a picture I just took of the M3 display... hard to see the yellow ring in the picture except at the corner which is extra yellow.

 

[daniel]

This is an excellent point.
it should be called SSD
Supervised Self Driving

SPSD. Supervised partial self-driving.

Maybe "partial" is redundant, since if it needs supervision it's not full self-driving, but given the disinformation going around, I think it's good to clarify.

A full self-driving car does not need a driver in it. Both EAP and City Streets are SPSD systems.

 

[stcptl]

Why post your crap link from a company funded by Oil & Gas automotive? You think your link is based on scientific evidence? You think they sample every satisfied consumers and don’t focus on dissatisfied consumers posting online?

It is much more scientific than random posters here. And they survey their readers and base their judgement on all the responders feedback, they don’t ignore satisfied users and focus on dissatisfied consumers online. That’s not how they work.

Like someone said before, not everything is a conspiracy.

 

[stcptl]

No, because medical statistics is cruel. It does not matter for you that chances to get an incurable decease are 1 to 10 million if you are this 1. This is why individual experiences matter for the love of humanity.

Statistics are the only way to arrive at reasonable conclusions based on evidence. If you care about what happens 1 to 10 million times, then you shouldn’t be driving on the road at all or doing much else in life. You can’t make decisions based on that kind of logic.

 

[OrthoSurg]

It is much more scientific than random posters here. And they survey their readers and base their judgement on all the responders feedback, they don’t ignore satisfied users and focus on dissatisfied consumers online. That’s not how they work.

Like someone said before, not everything is a conspiracy.

If you ever had training in epidemiology. There are 7 levels of evidence.
1) Systematic reviews
2) Meta Analysis
3) Randomized double blind trials, the gold standard, no bias
4) Cohort studies
5) Case-control studies
6) Case Report
7) Expert opinion

And I don’t think your Legacy automaker funded biased study classifies above case reports. You can give all the credibility to your before last so called scientific study, you are still in total blindness like an expert opinion. You need to climb the ladder to be less wrong.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Yes I know Tesla will be just fine, I don’t have concerns about Tesla success. I have concerns on how Medias made fake news and alternated facts so common than now Biden is spreading alternate facts bout Marry Barra who supposedly electrified the whole World.

You should worry about your own laundry up North and let us deal with our own crap. Most of us don't pay attention to what Biden is saying and he doesn't factor into out EV buying decision.

 

[Atomadam]

what BS, my only real issue with tesla is trying to get a service appt thats not booked out forever and a month.

 

[sleepydoc]

So they bought back your car and made you whole, and in the interim while being repaired, they loaned you 2 Model Ys? Sounds like excellent customer service to me. I find it hard to believe your were unlucky 3 times in a row though.

So he’s lying, got it. What world do you live in where ’quality’ means a car with so many problems that the dealer buys it back is ‘quality?’ That’s a fail for any automaker.

Yes I know Tesla will be just fine, I don’t have concerns about Tesla success. I have concerns on how Medias made fake news and alternated facts so common than now Biden is spreading alternate facts bout Marry Barra who supposedly electrified the whole World.

“Fake News” - defined as any news you don‘t like? Sorry, you can‘t just ignore the stuff you don’t like of that doesn‘t fit your picture. The (real) world doesn’t work that way. You posted about the levels of medical evidence so you should be well aware of this. If evidence arrises that doesn’t fit your hypothesis it has to be accounted for.

My feelings about Elon are mixed: he's said and done some unconscionable things, but he also made EVs main stream. He's a self-promoter and a liar, but he's responsible for a lot of progress. So I neither worship nor hate him.

All it takes is one mistake to kill you. A 1% mistake rate is far too high for FSD. As long as they call it "FSD" (which is supposed to mean full self-driving) then every mistake needs to be reported. When they stop calling it FSD and admit that they are many years away from a car that truly drives itself, then they can talk about the things it does well. EAP, for example, is not FSD and does not aspire to be FSD and will always be just a driver-assist. EAP works wonderfully well, when used as intended, which is driver-supervised partial self-driving. When they admit that this is what City Streets is, rather than calling it FSD, then the things it does well, rather than its mistakes, will become the news.

Completely agree with Elon. THe problem is, people have a lower tolerance for mistakes with systems than they do with individuals. If a human-run system makes a mistake 1% of the time we call that good. If an automated system makes a mistake 0.01% of the time people get all up in arms. Elon has actually commented on this himself.

Statistics are the only way to arrive at reasonable conclusions based on evidence. If you care about what happens 1 to 10 million times, then you shouldn’t be driving on the road at all or doing much else in life. You can’t make decisions based on that kind of logic.

Exactly. Statistics are a means of trying to predict what happens before it happens. After it happens your odds are 100%. It doesn’t matter if it’s cancer or a chipped door panel.

what BS, my only real issue with tesla is trying to get a service appt thats not booked out forever and a month.

Umm.. maybe that’s related to the fact that they have a high problem rate? And if you have a problem and it takes over a month to fix it, doesn’t that make it even more of an annoyance?

 

[Brando]

Any CR subscribers care to comment?
I very seldom read most any main stream press - lost my confidence.

 

[Brando]

Not to worry - only about 1,300,000 deaths from vehicle accidents per year. => only 13 million in a decade world wide.
Seems driving is the most dangerous thing most people do.
Would you bother to buy a safer car? no reply expected.

 

[sleepydoc]

Any CR subscribers care to comment?
I very seldom read most any main stream press - lost my confidence.

Plenty of people have already commented on this. ’Owner Satisfaction’ is not the same as ‘reliability.’ One is a subjective opinion, the other is statistical analysis.

 

[DrGriz]

If you ever had training in epidemiology. There are 7 levels of evidence.
1) Systematic reviews
2) Meta Analysis
3) Randomized double blind trials, the gold standard, no bias
4) Cohort studies
5) Case-control studies
6) Case Report
7) Expert opinion

And I don’t think your Legacy automaker funded biased study classifies above case reports. You can give all the credibility to your before last so called scientific study, you are still in total blindness like an expert opinion. You need to climb the ladder to be less wrong.

Excellent points made. And, as far as I can find (as a member of CR and, no, I don't own Tesla stock), CR doesn't say how many responses they have gotten from Tesla owners for this current rating game.

They do, however, say this:

What Effect Does Having a Larger Sample Size for Some Vehicles Compared With Others Have on the Validity of the Reliability Data?
Given an appropriate sample, the more data you have, the more statistical confidence you have in your information. A larger sample will always give more reliable information than a smaller sample (assuming, of course, that the data are valid and collected from an appropriate source).

When we have small sample sizes on vehicles, we may use brand history and the reliability of similar models that may share major components. This gives us the ability to predict reliability of brand-new vehicles or ones that have been recently redesigned. We will only publish the data if we feel the sample size is sufficiently large and indicative of the model.

We have no information as to how much their ratings rely on "brand history" either from 2018 or 2015, and so on. Unless that information is made available, we don't know how they made their choices.

 

[john5520]

So he’s lying, got it. What world do you live in where ’quality’ means a car with so many problems that the dealer buys it back is ‘quality?’ That’s a fail for any automaker.

His post had troll written all over it. But even if he wasn't, they did what any good manufacturer should when presented with a lemon. All manufacturers have buybacks at some point. Is that fact alien to you?

If Tesla made unreliable cars it would reflect in their warranty stats. The numbers show steady improvement for the past 5 years. Certainly better than Ford (First On the Rubbish Dump.) If you have data to show otherwise, please post it.

 

[OrthoSurg]

Excellent points made. And, as far as I can find (as a member of CR and, no, I don't own Tesla stock), CR doesn't say how many responses they have gotten from Tesla owners for this current rating game.

They do, however, say this:

What Effect Does Having a Larger Sample Size for Some Vehicles Compared With Others Have on the Validity of the Reliability Data?
Given an appropriate sample, the more data you have, the more statistical confidence you have in your information. A larger sample will always give more reliable information than a smaller sample (assuming, of course, that the data are valid and collected from an appropriate source).

When we have small sample sizes on vehicles, we may use brand history and the reliability of similar models that may share major components. This gives us the ability to predict reliability of brand-new vehicles or ones that have been recently redesigned. We will only publish the data if we feel the sample size is sufficiently large and indicative of the model.

We have no information as to how much their ratings rely on "brand history" either from 2018 or 2015, and so on. Unless that information is made available, we don't know how they made their choices.

Thanks for explicitly showing how unexplicit is their mythology

 

[OrthoSurg]

So he’s lying, got it. What world do you live in where ’quality’ means a car with so many problems that the dealer buys it back is ‘quality?’ That’s a fail for any automaker.

“Fake News” - defined as any news you don‘t like? Sorry, you can‘t just ignore the stuff you don’t like of that doesn‘t fit your picture. The (real) world doesn’t work that way. You posted about the levels of medical evidence so you should be well aware of this. If evidence arrises that doesn’t fit your hypothesis it has to be accounted for.

Completely agree with Elon. THe problem is, people have a lower tolerance for mistakes with systems than they do with individuals. If a human-run system makes a mistake 1% of the time we call that good. If an automated system makes a mistake 0.01% of the time people get all up in arms. Elon has actually commented on this himself.

Exactly. Statistics are a means of trying to predict what happens before it happens. After it happens your odds are 100%. It doesn’t matter if it’s cancer or a chipped door panel.

Umm.. maybe that’s related to the fact that they have a high problem rate? And if you have a problem and it takes over a month to fix it, doesn’t that make it even more of an annoyance?

I guess you consider the Speech about Marry Barra Converting the whole world to electrification come Real News? Of course you can’t understand what we say here since you are confounding facts from fake news.

 

[stcptl]

What about JD Power? Anyone have any comments on that?

 

[Need]

What about JD Power? Anyone have any comments on that?

This one?

JD Power says Lexus is most dependable auto brand, ranks Tesla 30th out of 33

J.D. Power studies serve as an industry benchmark, and its results can drive sales and impact insurance premiums for owners.

www.cnbc.com

 

[stcptl]

This one?

JD Power says Lexus is most dependable auto brand, ranks Tesla 30th out of 33

J.D. Power studies serve as an industry benchmark, and its results can drive sales and impact insurance premiums for owners.

www.cnbc.com

Yes, Tesla ranked 30th out of 33 makes.

 

[OrthoSurg]

Yes, Tesla ranked 30th out of 33 makes.

Go back to your MachE forums