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Blog Tesla Restores Power To San Juan Children’s Hospital

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Tesla shared photos today of its first solar and battery instillation in Puerto Rico at a children’s hospital in San Juan.

The company said the project at Hospital del Niño is the first of many going live to support the recovery of Puerto Rico following destruction caused by Hurricane Maria.


Tesla CEO Elon Musk has pledged to work with officials to build microgrids using Tesla Energy solar panels and the company’s Powerpack battery system. The company has created similar microgrids around the world and Musk says “there is no scalability limit.”

Around 85% of Puerto Rico is still without power. Reconstruction of transmission lines and electrical infrastructure could take upwards of six months to complete before power can be fully returned to the island.

Tesla CEO Elon Musk announced earlier this month a decision to postpone the unveiling of its electric truck, Tesla Semi, to give more attention to helping restore power in Puerto Rico.

 
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But what good is all that power if the lines are all down and there is no what to get the power to where it can be used?
Power lines will be needed regardless of which generating option you choose.

Even with solar and storage you need power lines to distribute the electricity.

What they need to do is build out underground power lines that won't be affected by storms.
 
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Power lines will be needed regardless of which generating option you choose.

Even with solar and storage you need power lines to distribute the electricity.

What they need to do is build out underground power lines that won't be affected by storms.

No, with solar and storage you can wire one building per solar PV / storage installation. You don't need power lines to go down the street to multiple buildings.

The point here is to cover large facilities with local generation. No distribution.
 
Ok you're comparing apples to potatoes here, it took two weeks for a small installation like that.

A natural gas plant would take longer but also provide hundreds of times more electricity than this installation.
Natural gas plants also last many decades vs. expected 5-10 years for the expensive batteries, that will lose capacity due to daily cycling.
Natural gas generators make up the largest share of overall U.S. generation capacity - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Solar makes sense for these islands. Puerto Rico imports all its natural gas and oil. So solar will be cheaper. The solar canopies have to be really sturdy to survive frequent storms. Many solar plants in Puerto Rico were damaged by Maria.
Storm-Ravaged Caribbean Is Eyeing Solar, But It Won’t Come Cheap

But right now, they just want power back. No one cares about solar or fancy grids.
Forget the Grid of the Future, Puerto Ricans Just Want Power Back
 
Properly installed solar stood up fine to the Cat 5+ storm that hit the USVI with 200+ mph winds. That's far stronger than Maria was. A canopy installed by TSLA would have been able to deal with this storm. The flying debris? Likely not. Then again, panels don't really cost much today...and certainly will cost even less tomorrow.
 

Here is a detailed study on lithium-ion life cycles.
How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

The warranty sheet says right on page 1:
"Initial capacity of 13.2 KWh.."
"37 MWh of aggregate throughput" .
That's ~2800 cycles => 7.67 years. Proving my point.
Also, we don't know what the original capacity is. If Tesla sells a 20 KWh pack rating it at 13.2 KWh initial capacity, and then guarantees 70% or 13.2 KWh after 2800 cycles, it does not mean a 30% physical capacity loss. That's more than 50% loss!

What's the capacity warranty after those 2800 cycles? After 5600 cycles.
Nitpicking, but the warranty is also not "> 70%"; it says "70% at ..".

Let's say, that Powerwall costs only $5000. Total energy I can recoup in its warranty period is 37 MWh.
So, cost to store and recoup = $5000/37*1000 KWh = 13.5 cents/KWh.

Also check out the exclusions. So much for using these as "reliable backup" for hospital use.

excl1.JPG
excl2.JPG
 
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No, with solar and storage you can wire one building per solar PV / storage installation. You don't need power lines to go down the street to multiple buildings.

The point here is to cover large facilities with local generation. No distribution.
I would love to see individual solar and storage farms in San Juan
Because everyone knows those high rise buildings are known for having a lot of space for solar panels!
 
Here is a detailed study on lithium-ion life cycles.
How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

The warranty sheet says right on page 1:
"Initial capacity of 13.2 KWh.."
"37 MWh of aggregate throughput" .
That's ~2800 cycles => 7.67 years. Proving my point.
Also, we don't know what the original capacity is. If Tesla sells a 20 KWh pack rating it at 13.2 KWh initial capacity, and then guarantees 70% or 13.2 KWh after 2800 cycles, it does not mean a 30% physical capacity loss. That's more than 50% loss!

What's the capacity warranty after those 2800 cycles? After 5600 cycles?

For data in tables, the items are linked by horizontal and vertical rows/ columns. You appear to be reading diagonally.
For normal solar/ backup/ (non-TOU shifting), the cycles are unlimited! Look, the table even has it in BOLD.

pw_w.PNG

Back to your original statement
Natural gas plants also last many decades vs. expected 5-10 years for the expensive batteries, that will lose capacity due to daily cycling.
This clearly shows a power wall DOES NOT need to be replaced after 10 years.

Based on rough searching, micro turbines are 4-8,000 hour between service, and 40k-80k between overhaul. Running 24/7 40,000/24/365 that is less than 5 years. So in the 10 year span, the natural gas generator was serviced 10-20 times and likely overhauled at least once.Large scale Siemens turbine are rated at 100,000 EOH, so ~12 years. http://m.energy.siemens.com/nl/pool...r-plants/5_Lifetime_Extension_for_Siemens.pdf

Regarding your cycle question: 3,652 days/ cycles and still >70% SOC.
 
For data in tables, the items are linked by horizontal and vertical rows/ columns. You appear to be reading diagonally.
For normal solar/ backup/ (non-TOU shifting), the cycles are unlimited! Look, the table even has it in BOLD.

View attachment 256518
Back to your original statement

This clearly shows a power wall DOES NOT need to be replaced after 10 years.

Based on rough searching, micro turbines are 4-8,000 hour between service, and 40k-80k between overhaul. Running 24/7 40,000/24/365 that is less than 5 years. So in the 10 year span, the natural gas generator was serviced 10-20 times and likely overhauled at least once.Large scale Siemens turbine are rated at 100,000 EOH, so ~12 years. http://m.energy.siemens.com/nl/pool...r-plants/5_Lifetime_Extension_for_Siemens.pdf

Regarding your cycle question: 3,652 days/ cycles and still >70% SOC.
What nonsense. :) Is Tesla (I mean, Panasonic via Tesla) offering some magic batteries with unlimited life cycles while all other batteries have limited life cycles? Why is it only for 10 years then?
Now, look! I put the word 'nonsense' in BOLD. That must be a fact now, for perpetuity. ;)

But seriously, it's unlimited with a catch. How often do we have blackouts in US? I had one 3 years ago.

Instead of just repeating some line in Tesla PW warranty sheet with myriad exclusions as scientific facts, I recommend doing some research on this.
 
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What nonsense. :) Is Tesla (I mean, Panasonic via Tesla) offering some magic batteries with unlimited life cycles while all other batteries have limited life cycles? Why is it only for 10 years then?
Now, look! I put the word 'nonsense' in BOLD. That must be a fact now, for perpetuity. ;)

Instead of just repeating some line in Tesla PW warranty sheet with myriad exclusions as scientific facts, I recommend doing some research on this.
A warranty sheet is a legal document. Tesla is legally bound to the terms and penalties if it fails. Much better than some random guy on the internet.
 
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What nonsense. :) Is Tesla (I mean, Panasonic via Tesla) offering some magic batteries with unlimited life cycles while all other batteries have limited life cycles? Why is it only for 10 years then?
Now, look! I put the word 'nonsense' in BOLD. That must be a fact now, for perpetuity. ;)

Instead of just repeating some line in Tesla PW warranty sheet with myriad exclusions as scientific facts, I recommend doing some research on this.

EMOJI
Do you agree or disagree that after 10 years, the power wall will either
1: still have >70 SOC and be quite usable
Or
2: have <70 SOC, be covered under warranty and replaced by Tesla?
Or
3: Feel that >70 SOC is not usable and people will replace them anyway
Or
4: Think they will all be <70 SOC and that will bankrupt Tesla

Or were you not referring to Tesla when speaking of "expensive batteries" with a useful life of 5-10 years?
EMOJI

Regarding 10 years, no one would sign up for an unlimited length warranty on a electronic device, especially a power distribution one.
As for why they can: thermal regulation, SOC/DOD control, and charge/ discharge current limiting. Likely also project cost reductions of batteries vs failure rate crossed with refurbishment cost. The solar/ Powerpack system on Ta'u is part of a 20 year PPA, that well into the second refurbishment of a natural gas turbine.

EMOJI
 
Even if after 10 years if the capacity drops to just over 70% and no longer meets the requirements you are better off just adding 1 or 2 more Powerpacks to the install to make up for the difference vs. replacing all of the old ones. (In ten years they are likely to be cheaper with higher capacity anyhow.)

The exception might be if you don't have space to add any more units. In which case you might have to only replace a portion of your installed units. (The most degraded one(s).)
 
Right now Puerto Rico is doing Triage. They are determining where the need is the greatest, and the solution is acceptable, but not necessiarly optimum.

If a person is bleeding out from an injury, the immediate solution might be a tourniquet. It will not cure anything, but it will keep the injured alive until he can.

Bringing the Powerpacks will bring tremendous immediate relief to those suffering inside the hospital. Electricity for lighting, air circulation, air conditioning, medical equipment, surgical tools, hot water, computers, communications...

This will also give the authorities, in that hard hit island, experience with the latest solar and battery technology so they can decide where it can be efficienty used in other places, and where traditional electric generation and distribution would be the better solution.

"When you are up to your butt in alligators it is hard to debate about draining the swamp"
 
So who else is eager to know what other hospital Tesla is restoring power right now? Hope we see tens of tweets of these quick installs by end of this month. 25 hospitals still on generators should all see the light this weekend. 25 hospitals => 25 MWh. Chump change for the "world's largest battery factory" , that equals "production of all other battery factories".
Obviously, you are all convinced that these are no-brainer deals. Tesla must not have spent more than few seconds to convince those hospitals. Let the tweet storms begin :) Can someone tweet Tesla to tweet out the pictures of 25 other hospitals with Powerpacks this weekend? TIA.

For the poster saying money isn't a factor: It is, That half million dollar could buy a 50 kw additional backup generator for each of the 25 hospitals still running on generators, and be set up within days.
If someone wants to donate generators for PR, here is one site:
Power For Puerto Rico

started by build.com ceo. Haven't noticed any news article on this, so thought will put it here for the generous folks with no money constraints.
Build.com founder, wife launch Power for Puerto Rico, donate $100K for generators
 
That half million dollar could buy a 50 kw additional backup generator for each of the 25 hospitals still running on generators, and be set up within days.

Ummm, why buy generators for places that have generators? You do know you can't just parallel two generators right? I mean if you had something like a Powerwall or powerpack and inverter sure. But not a standard genset.
Or are you imagining rewiring the main service panel for a hospital to split the load?

So say you did buy 25 generators with 500k. 500/25 is 20k per generator. A 50 kW diesel genset is 16k and uses 62 gallons a day at 1/2 load. Generac Protector RD05034GDAE ® 50kW Automatic Standby Diesel Generator 120/208V 3-Phase
Let's be generous and say diesel costs the same as in the U.S. 2.75 a gallon. The generator will burn through 170 dollars a day. There was 4k left over from purchasing (ignoring tax and shipping) so they can use the generator for 4,000/170 or a little under 24 days.. so at 25 kWh load, it will be useful for less than 4 weeks. Of course, this one is not rated for life support applications, and you'll need to stop it every 5 days for maintenance, and change the oil every 10. OTOH that 20k would keep their current generator running for 4 months if need be. If money matters, burning it up seems less than optimum (excepting short term stop gap).


Also: regarding the items added in your late edit: Tesla is installing Powerpacks, not Powerwalls. PWs happen to have their warranty on-line for reference. Tesla is doing full PPAs for 13.9 cents per kWh for 20 years as a sole power source, which includes hospitals (which should have UPS on critical loads anyway).
 
As for who is paying for the power system, the head of the hospital tells Nuevo Dia that for now, it's a donation — and that after the energy crisis is over, a deal could make it permanent.
.

In other words, it's a free loan. But at some point Tesla will take it back if the Hospital doesn't choose to pay for it.

Sounds fair. And cudos to Tesla for making it work and helping out. But the cost to Tesla of doing this is relatively low, and the marketing value quite high. A win win.
 
Worrying about replacing battery packs in 10 years is like worrying about replacing a few broken $100 solar panels.

We're looking at $70/kWh at worst by 2027, what's that......$15k for a replacement power pack? Hell, something less "space conscious" will certainly be on the market for half that in 10 years.

First, your assumption of $70/KWh in 2027 is based on 'Elon says", not any scientific projections. Tesla founders thought the same way back in 2004, but never happened. By now, you should know that Elon's statements are mostly aspirational.
Second, you assumed 1 Powerpack (200 KWh) to come up with your $15K. If it has to support 12 hours of night time, that's max 16 kw system. But the picture shows 5 powerpacks => 1 MWh => ~100kw system. That's what the whole discussion is based on. If you now say 1 PP is enough, implying a 16 kw system, you can get a 16 kw generator for $3800. Pocket change, eh? You can say, the PP does more than backup. But it depends on what the hospital needs.
Quick Find
16kw.JPG


Ummm, why buy generators for places that have generators? You do know you can't just parallel two generators right? I mean if you had something like a Powerwall or powerpack and inverter sure. But not a standard genset.
Or are you imagining rewiring the main service panel for a hospital to split the load?

So say you did buy 25 generators with 500k. 500/25 is 20k per generator. A 50 kW diesel genset is 16k and uses 62 gallons a day at 1/2 load. Generac Protector RD05034GDAE ® 50kW Automatic Standby Diesel Generator 120/208V 3-Phase
Let's be generous and say diesel costs the same as in the U.S. 2.75 a gallon. The generator will burn through 170 dollars a day. There was 4k left over from purchasing (ignoring tax and shipping) so they can use the generator for 4,000/170 or a little under 24 days.. so at 25 kWh load, it will be useful for less than 4 weeks. Of course, this one is not rated for life support applications, and you'll need to stop it every 5 days for maintenance, and change the oil every 10. OTOH that 20k would keep their current generator running for 4 months if need be. If money matters, burning it up seems less than optimum (excepting short term stop gap).
Well, my link was for donating generators to households that don't have generators :) These are smal $1k gens they are donating.

I think you get the idea all right, but you just want to troll me :) If some hospital needs 150kw, they get 150 kw. Here is a 150 kw under $30k. The extra generator acts as a backup to the backup. There are some generators that can be connected in parallel. But the backup of backup can help with easier maintenance, as hospital del nino said in their request. Instead, Ricardo and Tesla sent them something that gobbled up half of their parking lot :(
150kw.JPG

Tesla is doing full PPAs for 13.9 cents per kWh for 20 years as a sole power source, which includes hospitals (which should have UPS on critical loads anyway).
You brought up the Powerwall for some reason,not me.
We'll see what kind of deals Tesla signs in Puerto Rico. PPA makes sense. If the hospitals don't lose their parking lots, 13.9c/KWh is good price. But then, you go back to the power lines to bring power from far away solar farms, which get damaged by storms, which is the issue the whole microgrid thing is supposed to solve. Of course, underground lines or well maintained lines will solve a lot of it, but that won't be cool or be a big business for companies.

Solarcity/Tesla is most likely losing money big time in that Kaua'i project. As I showed, with current PP costs, just storing and recouping each KWh costs ~13.5c. Then there is 10% round trip loss. If they also bought the land and are maintaining that land & lines by themselves, that's additional costs Tesla is absorbing within the 13.9c/KWh price.

We might just keep trolling till we hear the next burst of news on "Tesla restores power to another dozen hospitals". ;)
 
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