I think the big difference is that Tesla offers a 4 year/50k mile warranty on their option. What kind of warranty do your upgrades come with? Or would they have to spend ~$4k to buy your HV battery plan twice to get the same coverage?
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Tesla Service says my Tesla Model S 2013 60 kw Main battery needs to be replaced
- Thread starter AprilDelivery??
- Start date
057tech sent me back an email a few days ago stating "Yeah, it's definitely a little bit of an odd situation with the original 60s, especially the really old ones built before about June 2013. They just don't have enough secondhand value to be able to discount much of anything for the core pack.
That said, most of the people we deal with who have original 60s tend to opt for some kind of upgrade instead of waiting who knows how long for Tesla to swap in a refurbished 60 pack. If the car itself is in decent shape, you want to keep the car, and you're already faced with a five figure repair just to get it back to the way it was, most folks we talk to figure they might as take the opportunity to throw a little more at it to get a bit more range and value out of it instead of just getting back to where you were. When you look at it that way ($12k best case to get back to a working 60 with Tesla, or $16-18k to get to a 75 with us), you're net cost difference is only $3-5k to upgrade to something better in the process.
At the end of the day, and I say this a lot, I'm a terrible salesman. I'm pretty good at presenting options to folks, and most of the time I have some pretty sane options to give people on things like battery replacements, upgrades, and other services. Not always, and I've noted to people many times in some situations that, when considering the whole picture and particular situation, service with us may not make sense vs what Tesla or someone else is offering... much to the surprise of the customer. Pretty much if I were in the customer's shoes, and I wouldn't choose us for the service (either because we can't beat Tesla's pricing, or our lead time is too far out at the moment, or something), I'll tell them that. I've been told this isn't normal.
We currently have a 8-10 week backlog for battery replacements. However, we are only taking 60 types in for battery upgrades, not replacements.
Transport costs depend on the zip code, but typically NY to NC runs around $1k (one way).
Due to your current pack failing, if you would like to upgrade to a 75, 85 or 90 type battery pack, you would be looking at an average cost of $16,000-$20,000. depending on which type you choose, plus transport fees."
So the lowest price would be 16k + 2k transport fees= 18k . If anything goes wrong I gotta spend 2k in transport fees every time, it doesn't make sense to me.
I can't find this particular note in our system (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but little odd as almost everything is funneled through a central support setup).
It looks like the verbiage is some tweaks to one of our canned response lines for full pack replacements on an 85/90 where the car doesn't have a pack at all, or the pack is water damaged. Not sure why that'd be the case, but, we've been ridiculously swamped (my fault, kind of, due to my latest viral tweet trying to help out a customer, and the subsequent press coverage) so it may be the crew handling emails is not fully parsing some requests in order to get through the huge stack of inquiries... something I'll look into.
On the transport costs, I have no idea where they would have gotten that number, so that I'll have to look into. They may have ticked an incorrect box (transporting a large SUV is pricier than a Model S, for example) when getting a quote from our dispatch system, mistyped a zip code, or something along those lines. As I said before, definitely not $1k each way for NY. Some parts of NY are pricier than others, but I've never seen it reach $1k even for a completely totaled car shipped here.
And as I noted before, the 60 to 70 upgrade has a base price of around $12k with a functional core pack. We have a fully automated online quote system for upgrade pricing now, so I'll make sure my staff just directs people there instead of trying to quote estimates. I plan on adding a bit of a questionnaire to the upgrade page to better quote pricing (such as for people with batteries that have failed). I'm also trying to get better API access to our vehicle transport dispatch service to provide transport quotes along with the upgrade pricing in one shot.
Like I said, our service doesn't make sense for everyone in every instance. It usually does, but not always.
Regardless, you've made it pretty clear you're not using our service, and I've even pointed out that it probably doesn't make sense for you to do so. And, I'm sorry, but at this point I've no intention of us providing any service for you anyway, given the attitude presented here. Go ahead with Tesla Service, and best of luck with your repair.
Yeah replacements with the warranty Tesla offers are definitely not terrible options if it makes sense for the customer. If all they want is the car working again, they don't particularly care what they end up with, and aren't willing to spend any more money, then that's pretty much the only option for a 60 replacement.
The only refurbished 60s they have are ones that have already been removed from a vehicle for some sort of failure condition they attempted to address previously. The 60s in general are usually used pretty harshly due to the limited capacity (charged to 100% more, normal driving is harder on the cells than other packs due to fewer per cell group, etc).
I'd personally never pay $12k for a 60 pack, even with a warranty. My main issue is that Tesla's refurbished 60 packs tend to be pretty terrible on the degradation side. I actually have a Tesla refurbished 60 in the S I drive as my daily commuter. 90% charge is 138 rated miles. 100% is 152 rated miles. It "super"charges at about 35 kW. It's overall pretty horrible, really.
On our side, we do offer discounts on our battery service plans for batteries we supply/install, but it would be extra yes. Offering a warranty outright would just add costs to the base pricing for everyone. From the business side, sure we could be shady like a lot of places and just throw in warranty terms and then kick the can down the road hoping the customer never uses it, then try to get out of dealing with it somehow when/if they have a problem (looking at you, fly-by-night eBay sellers...) but that's never made sense to me. As a product we don't produce, providing a warranty at no cost is just silly. When we get our custom replacement packs ready for sale, those will carry a warranty by default, however, since we'll be producing the product itself.
The main draw for most folks of our service over Tesla is the upgrade aspect. In the case of every Model S 60, the car is going to be well out of warranty already when the pack dies. Your options are to then either roll the dice with Tesla and get a refurbished like replacement for $12k+, upgrade to something better with us, or just scrap the car and be done with it. If your car's value before the failure was $X, it's going to still be $X after going with a like-replacement with Tesla, warranty or no warranty. If you go with us and do an upgrade, especially from a 60 to a 16 module pack like an 85 or 90, then you actually have a more valuable vehicle than you started with, more usable range, etc, and you're still better off than you were before your original failure.
Like I said, doesn't make sense for everyone, and I'm more than happy to send people to Tesla when it doesn't. The 60s are just a weird prospect all around, and it never makes sense to me to just fix a 60 back to a 60. We've done it a few times, but not super common, and we've basically stopped doing this.
For anything other than an original 60, the math almost always works out significantly better to go with us for service rather than Tesla, even when factoring in worst case transport costs and adding a service plan, if desired.
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Wow, is that really at about 27% degradation? (Or ~30% if it is a 60D.) If that is the quality of packs Tesla offers, that changes things a lot. And their parts warranty that the replacement pack would fall under doesn't list any degradation coverage or where it would start from. (New pack stats or as delivered to you.)
So yeah, it seems to me that the only reasonable option would be to upgrade to a newer/larger pack.
Yeah this is a RWD. I count 26% degradation. Roughly 140k miles on the pack.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
To my knowledge there are no 60Ds with “real” 60 batteries, ya?
Anything 60D is 2016+ and actually has a 70/75 battery.
I have seen a fair number of threads on here discussing badly degraded 60kwh batteries like this… seems like they really get the worst of it.
Really , Tesla said roughly the same as my old battery . I was getting the max range like 189-190. Or 215 when I got it originally. plus free charging.
Plus. some one just replaced battery with Tesla for 11.7k and same battery range . Heres the Quote:
Gibby
New Member
Mar 12, 2021215Simi Valley, CAI just had the HV battery in my 2013Tesla s60 fail and then replaced by Tesla...total cost incl. labor: $11,700. Four yr, 50k warranty incl. Has same range as before.
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Correct.
Well, except for a franken-car I made at some point, but that doesn't count. lol
Yep, it's pretty common. Likely why they stopped producing them so early on.
Since you're the guy who probably sees more broken HV batteries other than Tesla, let me ask, what sort of mileage and age are you seeing on these batteries by the time they kick the bucket? Is it all over the place or is there a typical mileage and age that you see?
Tesla service updated me that the battery covers are corroded and the batteries leaked out and corroded the fuse connections. I was trying to get Tesla service to tell me exactly what happened and they told me just the battery failed. They brought out one battery fuse cover connector and showed me it was corroded with battery leak fluid. So I told them to try to replace it with any size battery thats compatible , 60,70,80,85 etc. Tesla said they will keep me updated. What do you think ?
zoomer0056
Active Member
Leaking batteries. First I've heard of that. 2013, it lasted 9 years (battery years not as long as dog years). Get the best battery that they can offer.
The batteries don't leak...
More likely, given the revision of the pack, moisture got into the pack as well as on top of it (like where the steel fuse cover is) and corroded and damaged modules within.
More likely, given the revision of the pack, moisture got into the pack as well as on top of it (like where the steel fuse cover is) and corroded and damaged modules within.
love this thread, ties so many things into a bow. transparency is key, absolutely key.
we regularly end up trying to talk our customers out of doing business with us as well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and when we see something that doesn't quite add up, we encourage them to at least take another run at their local Tesla Service Center.
where it gets really painful is when their local SC chimes back with something like: 'we have performed a remote diagnostic test on your battery pack and have supportive evidence that redeems battery pack replacement'
in some cases, sure the pack does need replacement - but apparently when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail...
we regularly end up trying to talk our customers out of doing business with us as well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and when we see something that doesn't quite add up, we encourage them to at least take another run at their local Tesla Service Center.
where it gets really painful is when their local SC chimes back with something like: 'we have performed a remote diagnostic test on your battery pack and have supportive evidence that redeems battery pack replacement'
in some cases, sure the pack does need replacement - but apparently when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail...
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yup - simple H20 is all it takes. and to make matters worse, some of the early model Telsa's dump condensation from the climate control right on top of the battery pan (
) and then the sealant around the fuse cover creates a perfect moat to trap salt, water and all sorts of nasty corrosive debris to eat through the top of the steel fuse cover.from our 'Wall of Shame'...
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remarkably, in the pack above, moisture was filling up the fuse tray - no surprise there - causing the pack to shut down due to an isolation fault. but with the vehicle now inoperative, the source of road moisture (rain, snow, ice, etc.) goes away (or mostly away) and in turn, no further water intrusion into the actual core - just a very very wet fuse tray and trashed fuse.
now, it doesn't always play out this way, but in this case, the fix was remarkably simple - doublecheck the data from the pack, borescope the interior, clean up the fuse tray, replace the main fuse and fuse cover, seal everything up tight and pressure test. car back on the road for a fraction of the cost of pack replacement quoted by the SC…
very happy owner.
now, it doesn't always play out this way, but in this case, the fix was remarkably simple - doublecheck the data from the pack, borescope the interior, clean up the fuse tray, replace the main fuse and fuse cover, seal everything up tight and pressure test. car back on the road for a fraction of the cost of pack replacement quoted by the SC…
very happy owner.
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What did you decide to do here. I have a 2012 signature series P85. It has 178,000 miles. I had the first main battery replaced (under warranty) at 100,000 miles and I just had the second one go out at 178,000. They are quoting $21,000 to replace. Any thoughts? Gruber is 4-6 months out. Is it even worth replacing?
Tesla service quoted me HV Battery 75Kw $11,478 , 60kw Battery reman $13,425 , 90kw production pack $19,183. I quoted your fuse box fix to them . Waiting for a response. Recell , 057tech what do you think?? I said 75kw is good. What do you think??remarkably, in the pack above, moisture was filling up the fuse tray - no surprise there - causing the pack to shut down due to an isolation fault. but with the vehicle now inoperative, the source of road moisture (rain, snow, ice, etc.) goes away (or mostly away) and in turn, no further water intrusion into the actual core - just a very very wet fuse tray and trashed fuse.
now, it doesn't always play out this way, but in this case, the fix was remarkably simple - doublecheck the data from the pack, borescope the interior, clean up the fuse tray, replace the main fuse and fuse cover, seal everything up tight and pressure test. car back on the road for a fraction of the cost of pack replacement quoted by the SC…
very happy owner.
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