Tesla Solar vs ....[third party competitors]

[sunwarriors]

I wanted SunPower panels when I just started my research, but the cost was pretty high honestly. (like $4+) from a few quotes. Some of the sales reps can only tout the marketing materials when Sunpower had a bigger lead/advantage from 10 years ago(?) and were pretty clueless overall. It almost sounds like they have to hire dumb to push the Sunpower advantage.

I also had a few quotes with a SE central inverter, but asked to change to micros and didn't see much cost in the overall project to make me bat an eye using that as a cost saver.

I agree if you can do all the work yourself and have a spare, swapping an inverter in your garage is far easier than getting on a roof. I don't think anyone can debate that. Problem is when you don't have a spare, horror stories here of delays, having to depend on Tesla or wait for Solaredge to send you a product and during that 2 week - month, your system is 100% offline. Add in the global supply shortage now and things are a mess (my install got delayed as well).

My original comment was directed at Ramphex as to whether going with Tesla Solar made sense and my point was if you went with Tesla Solar, you simply don't get to 'pick' anything in your configuration so you'll have to live with a string (even if you have tons of shade).

 

[BGbreeder]

FWIW: I can say that for the bids that I got the Enphase microinverters were the cheapest per watt, and with the longest warranty, and the lowest MTBF rating. That made the decision easy. At the time, I had way too many friends with inverters being swapped well before ten years. (Local power quality? Installation? Grounding? Who knows, but it seemed like a double digit percentage.)

Knock on wood, we haven't had any failures despite a large lightning storm that took out many of the transformers in the area.

I appreciate that @nwdiver doesn't like microinverters, but for our use case, they made sense.

That was then, and this is now, so YMMV however.

All the best,

BG

 

[nwdiver]

I appreciate that @nwdiver doesn't like microinverters, but for our use case, they made sense.

It's more the lies that I don't like. This is from Enphase and it's 110% false. Solar Panel Shading

But an installer eating the additional cost doesn't mean that addition cost doesn't exist. If they used a traditional string inverter they could have lowered their cost by another ~$0.30 - $0.40/w and achieved the same result.

 

[Fruitcake]

Price and Powerwall. In exchange, you get horrible customer support and get to spend hours on hold trying to get support. But $5-10k in savings is a lot.

Also, where are you reading that Hanwha panels are so inferior?

>you get horrible customer support and get to spend hours on hold trying to get support.

This, plus being made to wait an entire month for onsite support! What a deal!

Fruitcake

 

[sunwarriors]

It's more the lies that I don't like. This is from Enphase and it's 110% false. Solar Panel Shading


View attachment 722298

But an installer eating the additional cost doesn't mean that addition cost doesn't exist. If they used a traditional string inverter they could have lowered their cost by another ~$0.30 - $0.40/w and achieved the same result.

I'm not going to claim to be all knowing on all this, but is snow shading even the same as tree or direct covered shading and if strings were perfect, why is there even a need for anything else?

I would assume snow would just melt honestly, but I suppose if someone can get something even slightly better for little/no cost difference, it's 'why not?' to just go with that? The price difference just seem negligible/no difference now. It's also one less box in my garage honestly.

 

[nwdiver]

I'm not going to claim to be all knowing on all this, but is snow shading even the same as tree or direct covered shading and if strings were perfect, why is there even a need for anything else?

I would assume snow would just melt honestly, but I suppose if someone can get something even slightly better for little/no cost difference, it's 'why not?' to just go with that? The price difference just seem negligible/no difference now. It's also one less box in my garage honestly.

Shade is shade. The lie is that shading one panel on a string inverter causes a production loss in unshaded panels. The price difference is definitely not negligible. My #1,2 and 3 priorities are to get the cost per kWh from solar as low as possible. Micros are ~$0.60/w and Strings are <$0.20/w. The goal has been ~$1/w. That goal is nearly impossible with micros.

For example, solar installed cost reduction seems to have slowed significantly in recent times. I would rather see government and vendor collaboration to achieve $1/watt solar installed cost than more government subsidies for consumers and more vendor resources for developing high cost products.

 

[GJones]

>you get horrible customer support and get to spend hours on hold trying to get support.

This, plus being made to wait an entire month for onsite support! What a deal!

Fruitcake

Or you can use SunPower and get essentially ZERO warranty support. Failed panels - nuthin for months. Failed string inverter - nuthin ever. They are fabulous panels when they work, but just pray they never fail because my experience with SunPower is the worst possible. Zero support, unanswered calls...and then when you do get support - very limited and HORRIBLE on site activities. When finally replacing one failed panel - they broke another (and claimed it was broken upon arrival - in spite of my prep pictures from that morning showing intact panels. They never did replace my failed inverter under warranty - I had to pay out of pocket to get it replaced.
There are horror stories with every vendor and manufacturer...

 

[Fruitcake]

Or you can use SunPower and get essentially ZERO warranty support. Failed panels - nuthin for months. Failed string inverter - nuthin ever. They are fabulous panels when they work, but just pray they never fail because my experience with SunPower is the worst possible. Zero support, unanswered calls...and then when you do get support - very limited and HORRIBLE on site activities. When finally replacing one failed panel - they broke another (and claimed it was broken upon arrival - in spite of my prep pictures from that morning showing intact panels. They never did replace my failed inverter under warranty - I had to pay out of pocket to get it replaced.
There are horror stories with every vendor and manufacturer...

So I have an attorney specializing in consumer protection, and one of their suggestions was to have another party repair your system, and then "bill" (a more tasteful term than "sue") that vendor - in your case, SunPower - for your out-of-pocket costs.

The problem I have is that no one can service Tesla's Home Energy Gateway other than Tesla, so I am stuck in a warranty enforcement situation. But if your equipment is off-the-shelf and serviceable by other solar companies, you might want to think about this approach.

Of course, I am not a lawyer, but I highly encourage you retaining one of your own. Many times in my life, the multiple hundreds of dollars per hour they charge was the best money I ever spent....

Fruitcake

 

[Cshama]

I got first quote from Tesla. I found their customer service shockingly bad and I bailed.
But I used the quote to bargain with a local solar company and got the same equipment and at essentially the same price.

In hindsight I am glad I didn’t use Tesla. There were several issues with my install that need support. The stories I’ve heard shot Tesla are horrible.

As for Hanwha panels. I think they are as good as any other more or less.

The biggest issue with my installation is that I insulated my house at the same time and my electricity usage went down by half. So I really have too much production.

Luckily I also added a heat pump so I’m going to try heating house with electric this winter instead of oil and see how it goes.

I think I rushed into solar. Should have tried insulating first.

 

[Fruitcake]

I got first quote from Tesla. I found their customer service shockingly bad and I bailed.
But I used the quote to bargain with a local solar company and got the same equipment and at essentially the same price.

In hindsight I am glad I didn’t use Tesla. There were several issues with my install that need support. The stories I’ve heard shot Tesla are horrible.

As for Hanwha panels. I think they are as good as any other more or less.

The biggest issue with my installation is that I insulated my house at the same time and my electricity usage went down by half. So I really have too much production.

Luckily I also added a heat pump so I’m going to try heating house with electric this winter instead of oil and see how it goes.

I think I rushed into solar. Should have tried insulating first.

>I got first quote from Tesla. I found their customer service shockingly bad and I bailed.

Good for you. You'll sleep better for it.

Does your utility offer net metering? At least you would get something for any excess PV production.

Fruitcake

 

[flyinghawaiian]

I got first quote from Tesla. I found their customer service shockingly bad and I bailed.

Same with me. I've heard all the bad reviews but figured it was just a minority. Man, it was so difficult to get in touch with anyone. Plus, after weeks nothing was happening even though everything requested was submitted. Absolutely no updates. Decided to go with SunPower. Way more expensive but I decided I'd pay the premium for better equipment and absolutely way better customer service. First thing they did was call me and give me a direct number if I had any questions.

 

[GJones]

Same with me. I've heard all the bad reviews but figured it was just a minority. Man, it was so difficult to get in touch with anyone. Plus, after weeks nothing was happening even though everything requested was submitted. Absolutely no updates. Decided to go with SunPower. Way more expensive but I decided I'd pay the premium for better equipment and absolutely way better customer service. First thing they did was call me and give me a direct number if I had any questions.

Try calling the SunPower number and getting anything useful. Just because they gave you a number doesn't mean they give great service.
BTW - the monitoring hardware and software from SunPower is utterly useless in anything approaching real time. The increments for data are 15 minutes and the lag after each segment of data is at least 12 hours. You do get displayed data, but it frequently consolidates several segments so that it looks like you have a 300% power output for a little bit followed by zero. The corrected (artificially smoothed) curve and data comes several days later.
I keep mine running purely for the entertainment value - it is a waste of time to try and use it for any rational purpose. The people running their data piece are still working on their high school equivalence certificates. They have written two different apps for IOS and both are horrible. Their web interface was written by the same team.
Over the 14 years of my system in place - it has never provided anything approaching real time data.
Yes - the most efficient panels on the planet - no debate there.
Perhaps you would like to talk to my son, who also has a 10kW SunPower system - you can ask him about the unrepaired roof tiles. Or the lack of monitoring. Then ask him about his 3 PowerWall addition - and which was the smoother installation...

Just sayin...

 

[Fruitcake]

I got first quote from Tesla. I found their customer service shockingly bad and I bailed.
But I used the quote to bargain with a local solar company and got the same equipment and at essentially the same price.

In hindsight I am glad I didn’t use Tesla. There were several issues with my install that need support. The stories I’ve heard shot Tesla are horrible.

As for Hanwha panels. I think they are as good as any other more or less.

The biggest issue with my installation is that I insulated my house at the same time and my electricity usage went down by half. So I really have too much production.

Luckily I also added a heat pump so I’m going to try heating house with electric this winter instead of oil and see how it goes.

I think I rushed into solar. Should have tried insulating first.

In my experience, Tesla's techs are competent when they show up. The problem is SCHEDULING them to show up. Month+ waits are inexcusable in my opinion.

Fruitcake

 

[sunwarriors]

Just no one go Sullivan Solar, they seem to have suddenly closed their office and stopped all work while not paying sub-contractors. How can the owners even run/get away from this?

Prominent solar company accused of suddenly closing, customers outraged

Prominent solar company accused of suddenly closing, customers outraged

www.10news.com

 

[FurryOne]

In my experience, Tesla's techs are competent when they show up. The problem is SCHEDULING them to show up. Month+ waits are inexcusable in my opinion.

Fruitcake

Well, that's been my experience. I waited a few weeks to see if Tesla would schedule maintenance on my system, and after I got hold of scheduling they said that while the parts had been flagged for me, nobody had initiated a request for scheduling. They scheduled me for 3 weeks later, and Maintenance came out and fixed the System. (Pre-PTO)

 

[Unclepaul]

Buying Solar is a moving target due to constantly evolving products and installation techniques, complicated because most every roofing project is unique.

My story. Had two local companies send over pretty high pressure sales reps that spent over 3 hours each in my home trying to convince me that their company was unique and competitors were horrible. Quoted around $30,000 by each of them. Had very complicated assortment of buying options like Lease, Power Purchase agreements and cash. Both pressured me to sign up on the spot to qualify for "special programs" only available if I signed up during their in home presentation. Both acted very discouraged when I did not sign on the spot.

Decided to check on Tesla by going to Tesla.com. I decided to purchase an Quiet Cool fan from a local installer. This significantly reduced the number of panels required to zero out my current electrical needs. Tesla system was only $9,000 ($6,200 after tax credit). Since Tesla is the best value in my area they told me to expect up to 90 days from ordering to getting final Utility OK to turn on. This is exactly what happened. Tesla put me into their system and switched to radio silence mode. A couple weeks later they reached out to send a specialist up on my tile roof to weigh my tiles, take pictures and verify they could install on my roof. A month later they got back saying that their engineers had determined my roof was a good candidate and sent drawings of optimal lay out considering available area and seasonal shading. I OK'd going forward and they sent plans to the City and Utility for their blessings.

Took almost 2 months to get permit from city and OK from Utility. A week later they had installers on my roof. Took only 4 hours for the professional install. Installers were very professional, worked hard, and took pride in their work. After they were done I was instructed to not turn on my system until approval from Utility. Got an email from SCE that all was ok and turned the switch.

Do not want to sugar coat this, but it was not a quick and easy system. Tesla stepped through all the necessary parts and got things finished in about 90 days. Small bonus is that they installed pretty good looking all black panels (others had visible grids) and installed nice looking vanity panels around the perimeter to make it look nicer and perhaps keep out birds and rodents.

Several months later I had a fire in my garage. Firemen cut large holes in my roof to gain access. In order for the roof to be repaired the Tesla panels needed to be removed. Tesla sent out a team to remove them (10 days) and again reinstall them after the roof repairs. The insurance company paid their fee and everything went smoothly. City inspectors reported that Tesla is very popular and professional to deal with. They commented that my system was well installed and they found no faults that would delay their activation. All teams cleaned up after their work and treated me with respect.
Tesla broke 2 tiles during installation and found 5 others that were already cracked of had slid down to expose the tar paper. They brought out extra matching replacement tiles and fixed everything before leaving. No extra charge.

This was my experience. Others will have their own, but my take away is that Tesla offered good value, professional workmanship as well as follow up service when needed. Many will be irritated by their reluctance to chit chat and hand hold through the process, but I had faith and it was rewarded. YMMV.

 

[nwdiver]

Just no one go Sullivan Solar, they seem to have suddenly closed their office and stopped all work while not paying sub-contractors. How can the owners even run/get away from this?

Prominent solar company accused of suddenly closing, customers outraged

Prominent solar company accused of suddenly closing, customers outraged

www.10news.com

Empire Solar Group just folded too. I'm trying to find a way to take ownership of an abandoned system that was installed incorrectly. Just needs a production meter but it's been sitting idle since ~March. Our company doesn't collect the final 40% payment until the system is actually online and producing. I would encourage people to demand that. Don't agree to any final payments or loans until your system is ACTUALLY complete. At least then you can use those funds to pay someone else to fix/finish it.

Minnesota solar installer bankruptcies leave unfinished projects, calls for better oversight​

 

[h2ofun]

Empire Solar Group just folded too. I'm trying to find a way to take ownership of an abandoned system that was installed incorrectly. Just needs a production meter but it's been sitting idle since ~March. Our company doesn't collect the final 40% payment until the system is actually online and producing. I would encourage people to demand that. Don't agree to any final payments or loans until your system is ACTUALLY complete. At least then you can use those funds to pay someone else to fix/finish it.

Minnesota solar installer bankruptcies leave unfinished projects, calls for better oversight​

How stupid can folks be

because the company farmed out work to subcontractors and had no residential building license.

This is no different than so many do not get permits for projects. I cannot feel sorry for them. Most knew what they were doing to get it
cheaper"

 

[ptdusn]

@Zinc_Saucier : I agree with jjrandorin... you seem like a more discerning customer who has specific wants/desires out of your big investment. You're likely not going to have a good experience working with Tesla on this. You should find a premium local shop that charges the extra bucks to make sure customers like you come away feeling really damn good. Instead of just coming away with some solar on your roof and a few batteries in your garage.

One thing to consider about Tesla Autos vs Tesla Energy is that the gap between Tesla's EVs and competitor EVs in the price class is pretty dramatic. In my opinion Tesla's EV drivetrain is much better than other options at this exact moment in time (I don't care what Sandy Munro says).

With Tesla's Powerwall and Inverters, it's not like Tesla has a mega advantage over the competition. The Powerwall is an AC-coupled setup and very flexible because of this setup. But, companies like Enphase also have AC coupled battery systems; some users here on TMC have had good results from Enphase without sacrificing on features or function.

There are also DC coupled setups like what H2ofun was talking about from SolarEdge and Generac's PWRCELL. These basically pound all their energy through the solar inverters and pair very well with solar systems (that don't use microinverters).

While pricing is most attractive with Tesla directly... it seems you're (edit) not just chasing the cheapest. So explore with local shops and get that white glove treatment you probably want.

Personally, I have a Sunrun system with Enphase microinverters paired with Tesla Powerwalls. While I like seeing a Model 3 and Powerwall in one app, it's not like having the two paired up really confers much benefit. At no point would I care if I had "Tesla solar panels". The major benefit I can think of (other than looking cool) of having lots of Tesla stuff is that the Model 3 will know if the power company goes offline. So the car may intelligently stop charging to avoid draining the Powerwalls. You could replicate this "load shedding" benefit through other means with other energy companies.

I too went with SunRun here in AZ, so far couldn't be happier with the process. We signed with them in Sept and install was Oct 18. Have a 9.5Kw system with 2 Powerwall 2+ and the new Tesla gateway. Yes it was more $$$ than tesla, but everything they have done is spot on, (I'm an Electronics tech and watched install). They even included a "critter guard" around the panels.
Looking at our usage, 50Kw daily avg in Summer, (AZ is HOT), and what system will be putting out. We should not have to draw from grid very much at all. I am eager to see. I plan on running house off solar during day and the PWs at night.

 

[ko16apr1966@ya]

Utah Consumer here, as of yesterday, have a 12.75 kWh system and 2 x Powerwall + installed...with very good customer service from the tech crews (Powerwall team and solar panel team).

I decided to go Tesla after the a local company bid a sightly smaller system with 1/2 the battery capacity at +$10,000. I will admit, with all the negative feedback and my own experiences, I was thinking should I follow through or bail up the the install day. As of this moment, i am Very Happy I stayed the course with Tesla....check back in 5 years...I hope my answer will remain the same.

As for getting from Sign up to contract to Design to install:
- Tesla handled 5 or so re-designs in a fairly painless manner....but I had to accept that you don't talk to engineering, so my well formed questions were captured by the advisor and taken back to engineering. Once or twice, they seemed to be IMing engineering while I was on the phone for some simple answers...which I appreciated. In the end, if i did a great job describing my redesign request, it came back as I asked. A few times, I did a poor job or I didn't add specific directions resulting in another redesign. Usually they got my redesigns done in 1 week. I always had to call to find out, they never prompted me that a redesign was done, and the advisor had to move the documents into my customer facing files.

They seemed to work well with the County for a permit, a call from me to the county did seem to prompt them communicating to clear up an outstanding question.

All the advisors were well trained, and polite....a few seemed to know more than others....but they were not engineers and didn't try to be.

INSTALL DAY(s)(2) were GREAT! Both the Panel Install Crew and the Electrician (powerwall) crews were very respectful, patient, answered all my questions and did superb work. I asked for a change in conduit and they accommodated it cheerfully. By day 2, I was up and running.

YMMV....good luck fellow travelers.