Tesla Solar vs ....[third party competitors]

[jboy210]

How stupid can folks be

because the company farmed out work to subcontractors and had no residential building license.

This is no different than so many do not get permits for projects. I cannot feel sorry for them. Most knew what they were doing to get it
cheaper"

It does not matter. We had a contract with Petersendean. A huge multi-state roof/solar installer. Over a decade of experience and hundreds if not thousands of previous installs. But by Spring 2019 they would take 2 months to reply to calls. They could never get anyone to deliver us some roof tile samples. Finally they went bankrupt and closed the doors leaving dozens of jobs undone and many more projects like ours in limbo.

Also, right now we have two projects at the house that are seeing multi-month delays with a days notice. This includes a Living Room that is now just concrete floors and big holes in the walls, and backyard remodel with a $100K price tag where not one shows up.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Circling back to the original question, what's the difference Tesla vs [Other].....

80% of the answer is rooted in sales. Almost every other guy has a customer acquisition model costing them $4-12k, Tesla does very little to generate sales. On the surface Tesla's simple model is delightful, and saves you tons of money, but that leads to the other 20%.

20% of the answer is service. Service and communication don't cost too much so long as your efforts are centralized and your operation is scaling. This has always led me to believe Tesla is paranoid about ANY type of hand-holding leading back to a heavy sales process. I think their fear has been that sales handles service and communication in the old SolarCity(or today's Sunrun) business model.

So at the end of the day you generally have two bad choices:
1) Tesla for a reasonable price, but with no service.
2) A local or regional guy who you can only get to through the insane 1-to-1 in your livingroom sales model.

Since sales adds about 15-40% to the pricetag, I always advise folks to either go with Tesla or take a Tesla proposal directly to a local installer. Making sure to bypass any 3rd party or even internal salespeople at a local installer. With Tesla charging $2.01/Watt before any tax credits or rebates, absolutely nobody should be able to match that AND throw a few thousand dollars to some salesperson.

You don't even need to get an actual proposal, just tell them Tesla offers $2.01/Watt and you want something in that ballpark. The Tesla panels are just fine, but if you can leverage Tesla's cheap price into an LG(or other) proposal @ $2.35/Watt from a well respected local guy, that's the sweet spot today.

 

[sunwarriors]

Circling back to the original question, what's the difference Tesla vs [Other].....

80% of the answer is rooted in sales. Almost every other guy has a customer acquisition model costing them $4-12k, Tesla does very little to generate sales. On the surface Tesla's simple model is delightful, and saves you tons of money, but that leads to the other 20%.

20% of the answer is service. Service and communication don't cost too much so long as your efforts are centralized and your operation is scaling. This has always led me to believe Tesla is paranoid about ANY type of hand-holding leading back to a heavy sales process. I think their fear has been that sales handles service and communication in the old SolarCity(or today's Sunrun) business model.

So at the end of the day you generally have two bad choices:
1) Tesla for a reasonable price, but with no service.
2) A local or regional guy who you can only get to through the insane 1-to-1 in your livingroom sales model.

Since sales adds about 15-40% to the pricetag, I always advise folks to either go with Tesla or take a Tesla proposal directly to a local installer. Making sure to bypass any 3rd party or even internal salespeople at a local installer. With Tesla charging $2.01/Watt before any tax credits or rebates, absolutely nobody should be able to match that AND throw a few thousand dollars to some salesperson.

You don't even need to get an actual proposal, just tell them Tesla offers $2.01/Watt and you want something in that ballpark. The Tesla panels are just fine, but if you can leverage Tesla's cheap price into an LG(or other) proposal @ $2.35/Watt from a well respected local guy, that's the sweet spot today.

I think Tesla has increased prices recently. I just plugged in a random address close to my house and it came up with $2.20/W price for both the 8.5 kW or 12.75kW option. The days of $2 or sub $2 are long gone. Once you lose the pricing benefit, do you see any reason/benefit of going with Tesla Solar?

Local or other installers may have increased prices as well, but all I know is I got my PTO in < 1 week. I read enough horror stories here with month long delays with PTO from Tesla. The risk is too great if you are in CA and NEM3.0 coming within maybe 7-8 months.

 

[brkaus]

Interesting thread. Have same concern…. I can handle a lot of poor service and due time to save 30-35% on my install. But I don’t want crap either. The savings makes a huge difference on the ROI for the panels & can get 3 PW for the cost of 2. We have a value if solar utility pricing so battery (if I go that route) would simply be for backup.

But I don’t know what quote I end up with as the final until I put down the $100

 

[Zinc_Saucier]

I posted somewhere else about why I went with a higher priced local installer vs. Tesla, but wanted to add something that has come up.

My order was for PV and two PWs, but due to supply/allocation issues I only recently got them installed (PV was installed in January). Around June the building/electrical codes in my area for ESS changed. The original plan was to put them in the insulated (but unfinished) basement near the PV combiner box and main electrical panel. I had some framing down to pretty up the area before the PV install, but it was just 1/2” drywall over 1/2” plywood.

Today for ESS to be inside the house they need to be contained in a smoke/fire rated space. Obviously my 1/2” lightweight drywall didn’t meet this requirement, and not having walls on two sides (or a ceiling) didn’t help either. Since there isn’t another good space to put them (no room in the garage, didn’t want them outside), the decision was made to build a rated utility closet that would enclose the MSP, combiner box, and PWs. I questioned what the additional cost would be, but it’s all being covered by the installer.

Again, I know I paid a premium going with this company, but after hearing stories about some of the nickel and dime issues people run into, I’m pretty happy with how things turned out.

 

[Dracaris]

Yes, get at least a couple of other quotes. See if you can find an independent contractor who also handles Tesla PowerWalls and the matching Tesla Gateways. We went with our local high-end SunPower dealer, a large regional player who is also authorized for Tesla gear. We got great sales, a good quality installation with quick PTO, and so far have had excellent service after the sale. We also have only one place to go for warranty work if anything goes wrong - our local SunPower contractor handles everything. If they were to go belly-up, we'd then have to go back to SunPower and to (shudder) Tesla for warranty service.

There were delays for the Tesla components for our project, however, because despite authorizing contractors for their gear, it quickly became very clear that Tesla treats these authorized contractors like garbage when it comes to shipping out equipment they have ordered. Tesla jobs were going in around us with batteries and gateways, while for the longest time our contractor couldn't get Tesla to ship them anything. The gear eventually came in and we're happy in the end, but the Tesla part of the project was significantly delayed well beyond the time when we had PTO for and were operating our basic SunPower solar system. Where we live, utility rates are flat and our utility trades Kwh back and forth on a reversible meter on a 1-for-1 basis, so we were fine in principle without the Tesla gear, but we wanted that gear as a power backup because here it's also possible for storms to knock out power for days or even weeks at a time if things get really bad.

One other suggestion: When looking at panels, compare the number of panels you'll need to reach your desired kilowatts on your roof from one contractor to the next, and look at the details for the panels involved. How efficient are they as they heat up? What's the production curve like over the life of the panels? How long is the warranty? When we were talking with Tesla, back when we wanted a system installed, it was very clear from the specs that at the time their panels were cheap third party devices made by a company I had never heard of. That may have changed in the interim, but given how much cheaper Tesla tends to be, it's worth looking at this. Elon isn't in the business of giving things away free, so if they are cheaper for your solar installation there are reasons for that.

 

[brkaus]

Sun power was 35% higher on initial quote.

 

[Dracaris]

Yup, Sun Power was more expensive. We went with them anyway. No regrets. However, there are likely other local solar contractors in your area who will serve you better from a price / performance / service / support perspective than Tesla will.

 

[nickw252]

Start looking at competitors. My recent experience has been awful:

Inverter Out for 8 Weeks - No Help from Tesla

I had my solar system installed last December and was very very happy with it. The install was great and the installers were very professional. See this thread for extensive pics and a discussion. On October 9, the inverter went out. I went through all of the troubleshooting and couldn't get it...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[BGbreeder]

A reason why one might value microinverters over a central inverter, plus the warranty is longer, at least on the microinverters that we installed. Definitely a YMMV item.

All the best,

BG

 

[Scopeit]

Greetings ;
I have been looking into adding a system with solar panels and two Tesla Powerwalls.My first quote was Tesla .

As I have read here and in other places multiple complaints about Tesla service and installation,I looked for a quote from a local company which was way higher than Tesla, and another from Sunpro which is close to 40-45% higher than Tesla. This offer includes the LG panels, the two powerwalls ,and an upgrade to the electrical panel due to the size of the bus bar if I want to to run the house central A/C with the PW in the event of a transitory power outage . This need of an electrical panel change has not been addressed or considered by Tesla ..

My questions and concerns are in regards to the marked difference in prize , the ability of two PW to run the A/C and the necessity to change the electrical panel in the house ,which is one year old.

Would appreciate your comments and info regarding these facts , is a 35-40 % increase in prize vs Tesla always the expectation with other Companies , is this prize difference worth it, the ability of two PW to run a central AC for a 2600 sq feet house , and any experiences with Sunpro , or any other companies.
Thanks

 

[Dracaris]

We often run our home's heat pump on our PowerWalls. No problem, aside from the power consumption. At our contractor's recommendation, we also had an electrician install a "soft start" device in our home's heat pump in place of the usual hard-start capacitor so it doesn't hit the PWs as hard when it starts up.

Oh, and yes, we went with an independent Tesla-authorized contractor so we could get their PowerWalls and gateway despite having the contractor install SunPower solar panels with micro-inverters on each panel. Yes, it was more expensive. No, we've never had to talk with Tesla. Given what I've been reading about Tesla's customer disservice, we feel we made the right choice.

 

[ptdusn]

Greetings ;
I have been looking into adding a system with solar panels and two Tesla Powerwalls.My first quote was Tesla .

As I have read here and in other places multiple complaints about Tesla service and installation,I looked for a quote from a local company which was way higher than Tesla, and another from Sunpro which is close to 40-45% higher than Tesla. This offer includes the LG panels, the two powerwalls ,and an upgrade to the electrical panel due to the size of the bus bar if I want to to run the house central A/C with the PW in the event of a transitory power outage . This need of an electrical panel change has not been addressed or considered by Tesla ..

My questions and concerns are in regards to the marked difference in prize , the ability of two PW to run the A/C and the necessity to change the electrical panel in the house ,which is one year old.

Would appreciate your comments and info regarding these facts , is a 35-40 % increase in prize vs Tesla always the expectation with other Companies , is this prize difference worth it, the ability of two PW to run a central AC for a 2600 sq feet house , and any experiences with Sunpro , or any other companies.
Thanks

We went with SunRun here in AZ. Have 27 panels, (9.45kW) and 2 PW. The PWs have no problem with our A/C starting up and we can run the house off of them through the night. SunRun put the all of the house, except for the washer, dryer, stove & microwave on the backup portion of the system. I ran an "off-grid" test a few days after activation to see if the PWs could handle the A/C kicking on, and there were no issues.

 

[Unclepaul]

Tesla communications policy is not for the insecure. For the most part, they have no interest in non productive back and forth chit chat.

They will take your order, and you will not hear from them again until they have something they feel will be necessary to you. Will not give you constant updates or hand holding.

When they have your Utility permission, necessary permits, the panels on hand and an installation slot in your area, they will reach out to tell you when they will arrive. Unless otherwise noticed, they will show up when scheduled, efficiently install your system and get approval to energise the system.

If you NEED more communications than this, you should pay more to get another company to contract your job.

 

[holeydonut]

We went with SunRun here in AZ. Have 27 panels, (9.45kW) and 2 PW. The PWs have no problem with our A/C starting up and we can run the house off of them through the night. SunRun put the all of the house, except for the washer, dryer, stove & microwave on the backup portion of the system. I ran an "off-grid" test a few days after activation to see if the PWs could handle the A/C kicking on, and there were no issues.

What type of AC do you have? Some folks have variable speed (inverter driven) ACs which take a lot less energy to turn over than the one and two stage Copeland scroll compressor types which may overload a 2x Powerwall 2 setup (without soft starts).

 

[Vines]

What type of AC do you have? Some folks have variable speed (inverter driven) ACs which take a lot less energy to turn over than the one and two stage Copeland scroll compressor types which may overload a 2x Powerwall 2 setup (without soft starts).

These days, newer Powerwalls have the ability to start a good-sized AC unit even with just one of them. Earlier versions didn't have this surge capability.

This is about 88A of LRA per Powerwall, minus any other loads using power at the time. The best way to measure this is with a high-quality Fluke or other multimeter, using the peak/inrush function to measure how hard the AC pulls on startup.

As to the comment about what do you get for your extra money? You get customer service and questions answered. I know there are multiple installers and industry people here, but why no Tesla Energy rep? $$$ and that person would get flooded with customer service questions.

Instead, people thinking of Tesla panels come here for answers, and that works great for some people as long as the information is available and those with it will share. Many people here have gone to Tesla with help from these forums using revised plans and basically, tell Tesla "No that's not what I want. Do it like this"

Eventually, the customer can usually get your way, but in the meantime, your project may be delayed. You may have to call Tesla several times to speak to a new person to get updates.

 

[Scopeit]

We often run our home's heat pump on our PowerWalls. No problem, aside from the power consumption. At our contractor's recommendation, we also had an electrician install a "soft start" device in our home's heat pump in place of the usual hard-start capacitor so it doesn't hit the PWs as hard when it starts up.

Oh, and yes, we went with an independent Tesla-authorized contractor so we could get their PowerWalls and gateway despite having the contractor install SunPower solar panels with micro-inverters on each panel. Yes, it was more expensive. No, we've never had to talk with Tesla. Given what I've been reading about Tesla's customer disservice, we feel we made the right choice.

Thanks

 

[Scopeit]

These days, newer Powerwalls have the ability to start a good-sized AC unit even with just one of them. Earlier versions didn't have this surge capability.

This is about 88A of LRA per Powerwall, minus any other loads using power at the time. The best way to measure this is with a high-quality Fluke or other multimeter, using the peak/inrush function to measure how hard the AC pulls on startup.

As to the comment about what do you get for your extra money? You get customer service and questions answered. I know there are multiple installers and industry people here, but why no Tesla Energy rep? $$$ and that person would get flooded with customer service questions.

Instead, people thinking of Tesla panels come here for answers, and that works great for some people as long as the information is available and those with it will share. Many people here have gone to Tesla with help from these forums using revised plans and basically, tell Tesla "No that's not what I want. Do it like this"

Eventually, the customer can usually get your way, but in the meantime, your project may be delayed. You may have to call Tesla several times to speak to a new person to get updates.

I have 124 LRA and 18.5 RLA .
Thanks

 

[Scopeit]

These days, newer Powerwalls have the ability to start a good-sized AC unit even with just one of them. Earlier versions didn't have this surge capability.

This is about 88A of LRA per Powerwall, minus any other loads using power at the time. The best way to measure this is with a high-quality Fluke or other multimeter, using the peak/inrush function to measure how hard the AC pulls on startup.

As to the comment about what do you get for your extra money? You get customer service and questions answered. I know there are multiple installers and industry people here, but why no Tesla Energy rep? $$$ and that person would get flooded with customer service questions.

Instead, people thinking of Tesla panels come here for answers, and that works great for some people as long as the information is available and those with it will share. Many people here have gone to Tesla with help from these forums using revised plans and basically, tell Tesla "No that's not what I want. Do it like this"

Eventually, the customer can usually get your way, but in the meantime, your project may be delayed. You may have to call Tesla several times to speak to a new person to get updates.

Thanks

What type of AC do you have? Some folks have variable speed (inverter driven) ACs which take a lot less energy to turn over than the one and two stage Copeland scroll compressor types which may overload a 2x Powerwall 2 setup (without soft starts).

What type of AC do you have? Some folks have variable speed (inverter driven) ACs which take a lot less energy to turn over than the one and two stage Copeland scroll compressor types which may overload a 2x Powerwall 2 setup (without soft starts).

I have 124 LRA and 18.5 RLA .
Thanks

 

[ptdusn]

What type of AC do you have? Some folks have variable speed (inverter driven) ACs which take a lot less energy to turn over than the one and two stage Copeland scroll compressor types which may overload a 2x Powerwall 2 setup (without soft starts).

We just had a Bryant/Carrier 5 Ton 16 SEER unit put in. It has a variable speed air handler fan, but the compressor is one speed. In reference to @Vines statement of newer Powerwalls, we just had the system installed in October and the Firmware update hit last week. So that increased the surge capacity to 10kW each, (we have 2 PWs), so we have 20kW surge. Don't know what the LRA is.