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Tesla Theft
- Thread starter BushtrimmmerJr
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Tam
Well-Known Member
I thought Tesla thefts have been very well known in Europe (including UK).
In the USA, it's usually because owners left a fob or a key card in an unsecured place such as in a Tesla or in an unlocked place.
In Europe, the thieves have been much more technologically advanced than those in the US because they don't need your fob or card in the car or next to it. those devices can be safely a long distance all the way in your bedroom and they can still steal your Tesla with Relay Attack for years.
That's when Tesla put a stop to it and the thieves in the US lost their chance to learn from Europe on how to do it.
Tesla started to provide an option for Pin to drive so just in case they can get to your fob/card, they still have to take time to figure out what's the 4 digit pin is before they can get away. It's only about 10,000 possible combinations to figure out all night long.
Of course, if owners don't use the option for a PIN then we are back to face the previous years of the thievery methods.
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Not immune - people have done / simulated it in videos but it hasn’t been seen in the wild in the UK AFAIK
It must be especially difficult to take a Tesla that was plugged in charging over night. You would need access to the card or fob. Don’t think you could drag it onto a transporter anyway. Then there’s the pin, which you would be mad not to enable. Car can still be tracked I presume. Unless they know how to remove/block the sim. But then a disconnected Tesla isn’t going to be much fun for recipient of the stolen car.
I guess it’s just not worth it. Certainly for opportunists. There is still the possibility of being made to enter the pin of course, but this is another level of crime that most likely includes violence etc.
Far easier to continue to steal range rovers and M3’s.
I guess it’s just not worth it. Certainly for opportunists. There is still the possibility of being made to enter the pin of course, but this is another level of crime that most likely includes violence etc.
Far easier to continue to steal range rovers and M3’s.
I presume you can provide evidence to back this up.
As far as I am aware bluetooth relaying is impossible to effect, although theoretically possible.
Mate of mine had his BMW stolen a few years ago. They broke into his house while the family was asleep, found his key on the kitchen table and left with the car. Imagine the same scenario if he had had PIN to drive. Would they have given up or gone mental and done something stupid? Who knows? His view at the time was that he was glad they found the key and just took the car. Nobody got hurt. It was just a car and fully insured anyway.
So my view is if someone is prepared to go as far as breaking into your house while you are asleep then it's better if they find what they are looking for and leave asap before things potentially get really ugly. For that reason I don't use PIN to drive at home. I'd rather they just took the car in that scenario. But I don't make it too easy for them either e.g. relay attack wouldn't work.
Regarding the sim. When Teslas were getting stolen before PIN etc, disabling the sim was very easy to avoid tracking. I think most of those cars ended up being broken up and sold as parts. But as you say, it's now far easier to steal Range Rovers and BMWs. Anyone coming for your Tesla in the dead of night is likely to be an opportunist or deranged nutter rather than a professional car thief who is fully aware of the technical issues.
Well there’s this article from Wired about how a knowledgeable thief could gain entry and even ser up a new key on a Model X This Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes. I don’t know if Tesla has fixed the security flaws mentioned in the article but If you had pin to drive set up they wouldn’t get very far and there’s always sentry mode if you are really concearned.
Of course you can always just switch off keyless entry, which I occasionally do when parking in certain places.
I get the point about not activating pin at home to avoid potential violence, but this is always a possibility anyway. They won’t know there is a pin until they try it. So they come back, wake you up etc. It’s all extra time and risk. Probably fairly unlikely.
It’s a good idea to mega secure your house. Get rid of the likely shitty locks that came with the doors. Spend money on good locks and handles. Anything that takes time to get into is more likely to put them off and move on.
It’s a good idea to mega secure your house. Get rid of the likely shitty locks that came with the doors. Spend money on good locks and handles. Anything that takes time to get into is more likely to put them off and move on.
A huge market for spares. Many Model S’s were stolen in the U.K. before ‘PIN to drive’ was introduced, largely by dint of pressure from the U.K. Owners Club. Direct Line were even sending free Faraday pouches to policyholders.
The cars were quickly loaded into containers and/or had the SIM ripped out, were across the Channel and in Eastern Europe before the ink was dry on the crime report.
fancealot
Member
It does seem less easy to steal than with wireless key fob and relay attacks, before thew Tesla I'd keep my keyfob in a 'faraday cage' pouch when I went to bed. I've been wondering about whether to put pin to drive on and I probably will do if i'm leaving the car in a dodgy place, but for home, eh maybe not
I'd hope that Tesla could stop a reported stolen car from supercharging using the ID given in the handshake. That would surely make it fairly worthless when trying to sell it on. Only good for parts... but then who's in the market for Tesla parts... not many places even do work on them apart from Tesla.
I'm not sure how the M3 compares to the MS in terms of susceptibility to relay attacks, but all the MS's that were stolen were from the owners drives. The thieves had done their research and the thefts were targeted. That's not going to happen when you happen to have parked somewhere randomly, so I'd say home is the most appropriate time to use PIN to Drive.
Disclaimer: I work in it security, and have for 20 years now (ok, that's a scary sentence).
Don't get distracted by the wrong things. Locks and handles don't help, unless what you have currently is made of paper. You might be thinking 'they will never get through this quadruple deadlocked door, bwhahaha', but they are thinking 'yup, still just glass in this window'. It's the asymmetry of the defender - you have to defend all routes in, they just have to find one weak point.
So instead of over defending one point, make sure you have a consistent level of defence round the whole ground floor, close windows and do t leave keys visible from a window. In our area, they tend to break through patio doors and take 6 mins to grab jewelry and a car key then head off. Put either somewhere that it will take more than 6 mins to find and you kind of win. Use insurance to cover the gap.
In terms of the cars, there is a bit of a mix in the thread, old info and currant mixed up, and s/X/3 mixed too. Defender and attacker are always in a battle, each reacting to the steps the other takes. As I understand it, the current situation is:
- S & X, with the updated fob code from last year, currently can't be relayed.
- 3, using Bluetooth, can't practically be relayed currently. I have seen some stories from the US of people sleeping very close to their car (ie next room beside or above the garage) allowing the car to be driven off, so if this is you, experiment and take precautions if needed.
- Pin to drive is a good defence against your phone, key card or fob being physically stolen at any point, home or away.
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