Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[2daMoon]

Yeah, replied to similar post about the underbody perhaps being the drive/suspension carrier pieces.

For an exoskeleton vehicle where the vehicle skin is the frame as well, what is a "chassis"?

As I understand it, the exoskeleton will attach to a rollerskate made up of front and rear suspension/drive components and a battery in between them.

The exoskeleton replaces all of the framework on say, a Model 3, that also attaches to the rollerskate. (i.e.: "A" through "C" pillar stampings and all of any other bracing between them, fenders, quarter-panels, etc.)

 

[Hock1]

It was a standard stock split. The "dividend" language is purely technical in these instances and standard in all splits.

Anybody making arguments to the contrary looks exactly like this:

View attachment 632628

I'm not going into it, but you are absolutely wrong. Do some DD and look it up. There is a split where the Company splits all authorized shares through an accounting action. I.e., the Company decides that all shares are going to be split 5 for 1, say. One day you have 1 share, on issuance, you have 5 shares. There are no "new" shares delivered to existing share holders. In a stock dividend, on issuance you actually received 4 shares of the company for each share you owned. It's a big difference if you are short the shares and are on the hook for passing along the 4 shares that need to be delivered to the original owner. If you don't get it, I can't help you.

 

[SpaceCash]

I'm not going into it, but you are absolutely wrong. Do some DD and look it up. There is a split where the Company splits all authorized shares through an accounting action. I.e., the Company decides that all shares are going to be split 5 for 1, say. One day you have 1 share, on issuance, you have 5 shares. There are no "new" shares delivered to existing share holders. In a stock dividend, on issuance you actually received 4 shares of the company for each share you owned. It's a big difference if you are short the shares and are on the hook for passing along the 4 shares that need to be delivered to the original owner. If you don't get it, I can't help you.

Lose the tude, dude! Not only have I done plenty of DD on this, I've gone through the process several times in the past.

You are the one who misunderstands.

 

[MartinAustin]

Slightly OT post from today's local newspaper:

 

[jerry33]

I wanted to ask you a question off-line but it looks like you have blocked all communication. Maybe I just don't know how to do it.

Hadn't anyone done the coast to coast trip (albeit a bit slower) by using private chargers, 50 amp campground outlets and 30 amp motel outlets?

Just curious because it wouldn't have been too difficult.

Haven't done coast to coast, but before Superchargers were around we did several over 1000 mile trips using just overnight charging and RV parks (after the first year there was one 80 amp HPWC at a private residence we used to replace one of the RV park stops). It's not particularly difficult. However, it's a good idea to set up a spreadsheet with times and such so that you are mostly charging when you're sleeping or performing other activities. (No games on the console back then.)

 

[jerry33]

I give up. Where?

Had a DS-21 with a similar arrangement. Actually it was a reasonable idea in the days before collapsible steering columns because the bent part of the steering wheel was usually in line with your seatbelt so in a crash it wouldn't go into your chest.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Elon said on the conference call that they were probably going to hold a separate call/conference on new S/X(this upcoming week?) to discuss all the features. Most of the features seem pretty self explanatory. So I'm wondering why the need for a call or press conference unless there's stuff in there that they haven't disclosed yet

 

[UnknownSoldier]

Well that steering wheel is straight up not street legal in multiple countries, including possibly the US depending on how the NHTSA rules, so hopefully they will discuss the round steering wheel option.

Honestly I would really, really like the ANC (Active Noise Cancellation) to come to 3/Y at some point. Teslas are very loud cars when driven at speed, it would be a huge QoL improvement to bring that to the bigger volume models.

 

[capster]

Let’s really call GameStop what it isn’t: It’s not Tesla, nor should it be taking over this thread.

Please take it where it belongs. You all should know better...

Whether we like it or not, there is coupling between TSLA and the GME squeeze. Both the macro market and regulatory environments are also connected and affected.

These things are quite relevant to this thread, imho, especially as the market may be in for a bumpy ride.

Though if the mods decide these things are irrelevant, I for one will certainly respect their wishes.

I agree that the details of individuals’ GME trades and comments about GameStop the company itself are not relevant.

 

[jerry33]

Well that steering wheel is straight up not street legal in multiple countries, including possibly the US depending on how the NHTSA rules, so hopefully they will discuss the round steering wheel option.

It was legal in the U.S. and Canada when it was sold. No one has had a similar setup since so it's presumably still legal. But technically obsolete with collapsing steering columns (of course the steering column that didn't collapse would be illegal now, but the steering wheel should be fine--if anyone wanted to do it that way).

 

[Artful Dodger]

?? Tesla did a stock split, but it wasn’t a dividend. It was just a stock split.

Tesla Announces a Five-for-One Stock Split | Tesla Investor Relations

Globe Newswire
Aug 11, 2020

PALO ALTO, Calif., Aug. 11, 2020 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Tesla, Inc. (“Tesla”) announced today that the Board of Directors has approved and declared a five-for-one split of Tesla’s common stock in the form of a stock dividend​

 

[2daMoon]

I “disagree” with the assumption made by someone considering an EV that a long trip isn’t possible - the limitations of driving electric are fewer than expected and hurdles much lower - once you own an EV, range anxiety is no longer a thing.

The supercharging network is vast and expanding, I accept rare corner case exists where there remains a supercharging desert in Texas, and well, in the worst case, stop by a campsite and charge for a night and sleep in the trailer - after all, that’s why you’re towing a trailer, to camp. Campsites are surprisingly ubiquitous in rural America. That’s it, THE worst case, you charge at a camp site. Besides, if there remains a hole in the supercharging map, I promise you, stations will role out there soon.

In the summer of 2013 I charged at the same Delaware supercharger discussed up-thread on a 15,000 mile trip to the furthest Six Corners of the United States in a 60kwh Model S — gleefully watching TSLA run-up from
$30 to $118 (presplit). There were only 7 supercharger stations on the Continent, and yet, I never ran out of charge, with only 227 mile of range on that 60kwh battery, and yes, I sought out all the Kitch: large balls of twine, BioSphere2, building sized potatoes, the towers of NYC and Devil’s in Wyoming. Never ran out of power.

From the launch of Tesla’s Customer Stories :
Cross-Country Trip

So, yeah, I “disagree” whenever I read a post by someone who doesn’t own an EV stating long trips aren’t possible. In EVERY instance, you’ll figure it out. I’ve never heard of someone stranded and dying of starvation because they took their BEV rather than an ICE... that’s because there is power running to virtually every structure in America - no matter how rural. If it has lights, odds are, you can charge there.

8 years after that 15k mile trip I’m kinda surprised that I still need to say this, especially on the investor form : you’ll overcome the rare corner case where driving an EV could cause inconvenience... every time... the OP said that he had enough money to buy a Model Y, then do it... have faith, order your dream and own the best, safest, quickest vehicle ever made - you’ll love every electrified mile!

My last rant got nuked (for being a rant ) and I figured it worth a shot to try this again in a nicer tone.

First of all, thank you for your attempt to offer a response to my query regarding what it was you Disagreed about.

Here is the body of the original post, with which you somehow interpreted an assumption had been made that an EV can't make long trips. If you would be so kind, please explain which part was the basis for this assumption, and for your disagreement? Take note of the parts that have been bolded & underliined which seem to indicate no such assumption was, indeed, alluded to at all.

(no need to address the curious references in your response to camping, towing, and other aspects of which had no relationship with any part of the original post, below)

"I've gotten to a point where I could purchase a Y using margin, and retirement may be as close as a month away. We started planning a trip for late Summer to head to the Rockies and beat the heat. So, naturally, I pulled up the Supercharger map to plot our usual route for the car to be, only to find that I can't get there from here in a Tesla using the Superchargers without driving many miles out of the way on the boring interstates.

Now, I'm one who will gladly drive extra miles to avoid interstate highway travel, but I won't drive extra miles just to stay on an interstate. When I'm on vacation I prefer desolate country highways over the crowded super-slab. I want to find all those world's largest ball of string places, and enjoy the personality of small town cafes, and can relax as I watch the countryside slide by along with endless fences and power poles without being surrounded by the lemmings running full tilt into oblivion.

For now it will be a matter of looking forward to the greater expansion of Supercharger sites so I can finally choose a Tesla for my travels.

Till the 500 mile Cybertruck can be had it will be ICE, baby, whether I like it or not. I won't give up my back roads. Maybe in another year or two they will have filled in more of the blanks.

Happy weekend y'all!"​

Thanks in advance for any feedback which would further illuminate upon the inference for an assumption you found in that post indicating how taking a long trip in an EV isn't possible. This would be helpful so that I may have a better understanding of what it was that you Disagreed about.

Please accept my sincere apologies for the tone of that first (nuked) response, and have a nice day.

 

[kanweg]

So, what is the dirty little secret between CNN, CNBC and Gordon then? When will that one be splayed all over prime time, eh?

The title was just click-bait. After Gordon and an out of context quote by Zach that gave the impression of a response to Gordon, other people (e.g. Gene Munster) got their say accompanied by more relevant data, so apart from the fact that GJ should not get a forum until he gets facts correct the article wasn’t that bad. It was pointed out that Tesla grows rapidly and that it is expected to be profitable without credits.

 

[jerry33]

I pulled up the Supercharger map to plot our usual route for the car to be, only to find that I can't get there from here in a Tesla using the Superchargers without driving many miles out of the way on the boring interstates.

While this is a correct statement, it misses the elephant in the room. A non-SC route adds more miles than the Interstate-only route adds. A common trip that we take adds 50 miles, but if I drove the route I would really like to take, going from that route to the SCs and back would add an additional 50 miles. Until Tesla puts SCs on state highways (or has enough range to do a day's driving on one charge), that's not likely to change.

 

[Tes La Ferrari]

So then what the heck is the START button doing on the steering wheel?

Part of Ferrari's focus around racing, and bringing ideas from their racing cars to their street cars.

My hope is that Ferrari will continue development of their KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery) system ( Kind of like a racing version of Regen), into offering a full blown EV.

If you look closely at the LaFerrari in my avatar pic, you will notice that it is plugged in. The hope would be that they would take all of their racing experience and heritage and launch a full EV. It would bring a lot of new eyes to the mission.

Many exotic car owners that I know personally now drive Tesla P100D's as their daily drivers, after some lengthy FUD busting & a Tesla ride from me, as a fellow car enthusiast.

The two brands have more in common than many might think, including panel gap criticisms that exist even today. (talk to some owners)

I always share the famous Enzo Ferrari quote with them, when I hear "panel gaps" after mentioning Tesla:

" I don't care if the panel gaps are straight. When the driver steps on the gas, I want him to sh1t his pants" - Enzo Ferrari

 

[Knightshade]

It was legal in the U.S. and Canada when it was sold. No one has had a similar setup since so it's presumably still legal. But technically obsolete with collapsing steering columns (of course the steering column that didn't collapse would be illegal now, but the steering wheel should be fine--if anyone wanted to do it that way).

Do you mean the wheel shown in the Citroen CX?

That was round, not at all like the new S/X wheel. (ditto the non-F1 Ferrari wheel pic posted- round wheel)

(also IIRC Citroen left the US market due to new safety requirements their cars did not meet...though don't think it had anything to do with controls)

 

[Artful Dodger]

It was a standard stock split. The "dividend" language is purely technical in these instances and standard in all splits

You are completely backwards in you understanding of this issue.

This was NEVER about the stock split; it was ALWAYS about declaring a CASH DIVIDEND vs declaring a SHARE DIVIDEND.

A cash divended could easily have been paid by short-selling Market Makers (cash is fungible).

A share dividend could NEVER be paid by short sellers WITHOUT buying real shares on the market to pay with.

This is the fundamental issue you seem to be missing entirely: only TESLA has the sovereign right to issue TSLA shares.

Certain Options Market Makers were abusing their exemption to the prohibition against naked short selling, to the point where quite likely over 50% of the float was perpetually naked short.

That is illegal, and Tesla tripped them up by issuing a share dividend instead of a cash dividend. Ask any one of the many commenters (I have them bookmarked) one this forum why they didn't receive their dividend shares in time for the Open on Mon, Aug 31, 2020 but had to wait 2 days or more to receive their legally owned shares.

It's because Tesla 'rescued' the shortzes and MMs by issuing a $5B share offering on Tue, Sep 2020 which allowed the MMs to cover their naked short position, and provide the dividend shares they owed to their customers.

The fact that this is NOT the subject of a huge class-action lawsuit is a testament to the tilted legal playing field that exists to gather evidence of wrong-doing by market makers and brokerages. Shareholders could have sold for as much as $545/share on Mon, Aug but they did not have access to their legally-owned assets.

The fact the you don't appear to know any of this makes you look even more foolish than the condescending meme you posted in your comment, which I have redacted.

Not a good look, young padawan.

 

[Artful Dodger]

It is morally distasteful to bet whether some poor guy is going to get hit by a bus.

It is murder to push the fellow in front of the bus.

The short trade on TSLA was for a long time an attempt to kill Tesla the company. This was done in part by attempting to deny it access to capital. The papers also participated by publishing hit pieces to discredit Tesla, Musk, and their cars.

The SEC knowingly turns a blind eye on these attempts to kill companies and, in the case of Musk’s tweets for example, sometimes lends a hand. Hmm, that seems like regulatory capture.

Broadly speaking, the ability of shorts to strangle fledgling companies in the crib stifles innovation in the country and insulates entrenched players from the need to adapt. This saps the competitive strength of the US.

When our government fails in such a way, it is entirely right and correct as well as necessary for its people to exert a rectifying action. Indeed, it is our patriotic duty. Yes, even if we have to make a small sacrifice.

If the predatory shorts who were caught out in the GME trade can be ruined and their wealth transferred to our youth, so much the better.

Perhaps our federal regulators will wake up to the threat posed by the modern short playbook. Perhaps they will make short action more transparent. Perhaps they will restrict or eliminate the ability of market makers to abuse their power to naked short.

One can hope. One can also chip in a few bucks.

Nominated for "Moderators' Choice: Posts of Particular Merit". Thank-you

 

[Rarity]

Certain Options Market Makers were abusing their exemption to the prohibition against naked short selling, to the point where quite likely over 50% of the float was perpetually naked short.

That is illegal, and Tesla tripped them up by issing a share dividend instead of a cash dividend. Ask any one of the dozen or so commenters here one this forum why they never received their dividend shares in time for the Open on Mon, Aug 31, 2020 but had to wait 2 days or more to receive their legally owned shares.

It's because Tesla 'rescued' the shortzes and MMs by issuing a $5B share offering on Tue, Sep 2020 which allowed the MMs to cover their naked short position, and provide the dividend shares they owed to their customers.

Do you think this rescue was to the ultimate benefit of us Tesla shareholders? I would say probably yes, but only indirectly in that it allowed an orderly appreciation that was beneficial to Tesla the company.

Tesla provided a roadmap for GameStop the company. I wonder why they haven't used that roadmap so far.

 

[Buddyroe]

Slightly OT post from today's local newspaper:View attachment 632668

Uhh, this is NOT OT - It's dead on topic and the kind of thing I love to see here. Thanks.