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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Once you have it you'll probably be ecstatic. It is remarkable and wonderful that once we go through the stress of obtaining a Tesla product they tend to be very reliable and maintenance-free. As with every single newly introduced product I have owned, from Serial number 41 of a business jet, to a half dozen cars, present initial quality and feature deficiencies that are exceedingly irritating. Whenever I do that, which somehow I do often, I am prepared for unpleasant deficiencies.
Luckily Tesla deficiencies are not so consequential as was that airplane, which lost autopilot, primary flight computer, de-icing and primary navigation aids as I was making a complex single-pilot instrument approach to a mountainous airport in Switzerland.
In any event, early buyers should always be prepared. Elon has warned about that, he no stranger to early model defects.
That should not ever happen with commercial or residential energy supplies.
I agree that service is a weak point. I too had an order for TE products that I later cancelled. I contacted a local provider and they were a disappointment as well. Went with a large portable generator as a stop gap as I see these issues as temporary.
I installed home solar in 2010 and I remember what a challenge that was and see many similarities to current battery storage programs.
As for Tesla vehicle service, I disagree that their service is inferior to other offerings but will acknowledge there is room for improvement. I have had more good than bad experiences with Tesla service but recent past experiences With Mercedes, BMW, and dodge/Ram dealer service gives me perspective. I won’t bore you with the details; and although it’s just my experience, the balance of my interactions with Tesla service have been far superior by comparison.
Just 2 days ago, my Model X would not start and we were stranded at the mall. Within 10 minutes interacting with the app they had dispatched a tow truck and were able to walk me through a successful software solution (changing the wheel size in the svc section of the app) which allowed me to avoid a tow/ dealer service.
I think it’s easy to lose perspective on how far advanced Tesla is vs the competition. Are they perfect; certainly not. The goal is progress, not perfection. Perfection is an impractical illusion.
Fair warning, I am an unabashed Tesla fan man.
This is every OEM/EV whenever they attempt to one-up, sabotage Tesla and it only garners more positive results for Tesla.
Not sure if we should include pre-delivery service problems. Tesla is production constraint to the max while almost doubling production this year. Many people are screaming about missing deadlines on deliveries of solar roof/wall/any of their cars...but what can Tesla do when Berlin/Texas/4680s are not yet online which would solve a lot of the bottlenecks. I mean December deliveries are not scaring people away. Having delivery dates in 2022 just had people wanting to order more apparently.
As for post delivery, I am someone with their panels and car and I couldn't be happier.
Much this
.I have referred many friends to Tesla products and the pre delivery experience could not be more different than the post delivery experience.
I’ve had to talk many off the order cancellation ledge. Without exception, they thank me after delivery because they immediately experience the product superiority…then they ask me if it’s a good time to buy some TSLA (to which I say buy on any red day and dollar cost average).
1. First paragraph: I wonder who was able to compile those age data, and where an authoritative source for them is. Maybe it’s true, maybe not. I’m thinking it might be dangerous to use this forum as the source, however.
2. Second paragraph: I was told by one of the largest owners of NAPA stores (the company is similar to a franchise but not specifically so) that at the company’s annual get-together, the marquee event was how to face its future in a world with ever fewer ICE vehicles. The consensus was “We don’t know.”
In other words, they get it. That is, they get that they don’t get it. NAPA, Pep Boys, AutoZone, Schuck’s…perhaps Canadian Tire..which of these are independent, listed companies and are available to short?
Though otherwise an interesting post and not to rehash the service discussion but now on the energy side, this conclusion is too strong.
Tesla’s numbers do not indicate much if any of a demand constraint on either the auto or energy side from service, customer support, or anything else.
If service or customer support were sufficiently poor as to be or likely to become a demand constraint, Elon and Tesla would move aggressively to redress the issue given their track record.
That they focus so much on expanding capacity and managing supply chain challenges speaks volumes on what their data indicates about how they should set their priorities.
Poll time! I'm curious what others think. When will the entire Tesla auto line up transition fully to 4680?
My 2 cents: As an investor and former vehicle engineer, I'm in the camp that all Tesla vehicles will transition to 4680 in 2022/2023. This allows legacy form factors to be used for grid storage and simplifies vehicle production.
My 2 cents: As an investor and former vehicle engineer, I'm in the camp that all Tesla vehicles will transition to 4680 in 2022/2023. This allows legacy form factors to be used for grid storage and simplifies vehicle production.
Business get mandatory census questioners they have to submit. I have one sitting on my desk that needs to be done.
lafrisbee
Active Member
If I hung with him (no pun intended) you could definitely consider to use what I posted against me in a court of law...especially if I needed to maintain a public profile.
Some years ago, Prof. Dr. Thomas Weber, Board Member and Head of Group Research & Mercedes-Benz Cars Development at Daimler, opined in a public speech (iirc) that software bugs were not “God given" and that software should have zero bugs. I remember his comments because I concluded right then that this man does not understand software.
If you are saying that TE must ship near perfect products out of the gate, my reply is that that is not practicable. You learn much that is unanticipated when you initially place an innovative product in the field. Obviously nobody should ship shoddy products, yet it is only being realistic to expect new and innovative products to require some iterative improvement.
It‘s important to set expectations, including about customer support. It is also fair to expect the bar to rise with the scale and the maturation of the business as regards service and customer support (as opposed to safety which should always be of utmost importance, uh, except for private airplanes I guess
). I’d rather not quibble about the rate of that rise.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Mathematically though- no.
Right now Tesla gets $0 in EV credits....
Under the new plan Tesla gets $10,000 in EV credits.
While it's true SOME legacy models might get 2.5k more, many others (the Mach E for example made in mexico) would get the same 10k.
And even for the ones that do get the "extra" union money it only puts them $2500 ahead of Tesla for government credits... that's better for Tesla than the current $7500 difference.
Plus, of course, any EV sale that replaces an ICE, from any car maker, advanced the overall mission.
Teslas been eating everyone's lunch with a $7500 disadvantage- I think they'll be just fine with "only" a $2500 one
Meanwhile Barra is holding hands with Biden. It is so hard to visualize how many universes Elon and the rest are apart.
Mathematically though- no.
Right now Tesla gets $0 in EV credits....
Under the new plan Tesla gets $10,000 in EV credits.
While it's true SOME legacy models might get 2.5k more, many others (the Mach E for example made in mexico) would get the same 10k.
And even for the ones that do get the "extra" union money it only puts them $2500 ahead of Tesla for government credits... that's better for Tesla than the current $7500 difference.
Plus, of course, any EV sale that replaces an ICE, from any car maker, advanced the overall mission.
Teslas been eating everyone's lunch with a $7500 disadvantage- I think they'll be just fine with "only" a $2500 one
I think he means somehow if rebate passes to exclude Tesla completely as a manufacturer.
Should probably limit the speculating and doomsaying until then, but
1) what’s to say Tesla can’t “re-negotiate” terms of widening supercharger access?
2) Taken to an extreme, (I think mentioned some time before), similarly with SpaceX and ISS contracts
3) because, you know, 4D chess
Take that back!!!
....All of us here love our full time job of posting useless rants on TMC!! Y'all have actual 'jobs'? 
IPCC report will be out on Monday:
www.afr.com
I would think there's some reaction to it in the markets and, specifically, clean energy and transportation as a sector throughout next week.
World to hit temperature tipping point 10 years faster than forecast
A big report by the world’s scientists will predict global temperatures could rise beyond 1.5 degrees by early next decade, far earlier than expected.
I would think there's some reaction to it in the markets and, specifically, clean energy and transportation as a sector throughout next week.
You left out CGI renderings...those renderings tip the scale for 'fools'...i mean 'buyers'....To echo and supplement what others have eloquently said, I'm not sure why you paint with such a broad brush and equate retirement to being a bump-on-a-log drain on society.
Sure, some may think of it that way. But retirement can also provide the flexibility to optimally deploy your time and treasure in a way that you think maximizes value for the world rather than spending 8-5 grinding for an often un-innovative mission-less company in which the owners/execs only understanding of "value creation" is how to use PowerPoint and financial engineering to entice a greater fool to buy their company... not that I would know anything about that.
Elon is deploying his time and capital exactly the way he wants to improve society, and by the way has the flexibility to jet of to Italy to see friends whenever he wants... yeah he's working his ass off more than many of us combined, but still sounds like my definition of retirement to me.
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