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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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No matter how big your investment portfolio, you'll never have enough money to buy back lost time.

Find a hobby or cause you are passionate in. Make that a focus of your life. You're already uber successful. Money is but a number. All your needs and wants are taken care of for life because you had the foresight to invest in TSLA.

This is extremely sage advice. Investing isn't just about our money, it's about our time too.

I started a motovlogging channel on YouTube because I'm passionate about motorcycle riding, and my early retirement thanks to my TSLA shares allowed me to dedicate time and energy to my new hobby with peace of mind. It's been such fun so far, and I only have Tesla and Elon to thank for the time I've been allowed to enjoy how I see fit. Once I get my Model Y I'll likely start a Tesla channel because I've become super enthusiastic about Tesla too, and I'd love to find some way to contribute back to the Tesla community.

I know we all are enthusiastic about our Tesla investments, but stopping to smell the roses and enjoy our lives along the way is also important, because time only marches in one direction.
 
I wandered into another section of TMC, and it made me appreciate y'all even more.

As I've been anxiously awaiting 10.2, I thought I'd visit the FSD/autonomy portion of the forum for more detail on the progress and intelligent discussion. What I found was just a cesspool of whiny, entitled morons pissed off over a few day delay, oblivious to the fact that Tesla employees are working their butts off throughout the weekend to deliver a safe, high quality product to them. Here's one example, with his name removed so that he never finds his way over here.


It made me realize that the investor forum is a unique part of TMC in that it attracts people that as opposed to just being owners of the product, are also owners in the company and most importantly believers in the mission as well. This drives much more intelligent discussion than what exists in other parts of this site.

TLDR- Thanks to all of you in this investor forum for not being idiots.
Could you provide a link to this thing you are discussing...what is "the other part of TMC"?
 
Woke hit piece targeting the opinion of women…sent to me by my wife.

I know we don’t like to post such pieces here but I think it’s important to understand the ways in which Tesla/Elon’s opponents will try to slow the mission. I believe most of them (the journalists that put these pieces together) do not even realize how they are being manipulated.

Really is a shame Elon is forcing all his slaves to move to Texas.
 
Woke hit piece targeting the opinion of women…sent to me by my wife.

I know we don’t like to post such pieces here but I think it’s important to understand the ways in which Tesla/Elon’s opponents will try to slow the mission. I believe most of them (the journalists that put these pieces together) do not even realize how they are being manipulated.

By their logic, any company operate in China is violation of human rights.
 
This day I am thinking that, as other people state, Tesla is much more advanced than even our most optimistic views.

I offer these (not in any special order):
1. The paint shop: the robots seem likely to use far less paint than have the traditional paint shops. Just looking at the videos show very low paint usage. Of course the video array I have seen does not show primer supply. The Grüneheide water usage forecasts has been declining; at least some of that must be in the paint shop.
2. Front casting,rear casting assembly: Total parts count reduces from ~800 to somewhere below 20. There are analyses pending from a proprietary data service I have, and Sandy Munro will manage to tear a Grüneheide or Austin Model Y which will give many specifics. In the meantime, I think these will reduce Robin requirement by at least a dozen or so. That will also make nearly all attachments will self tapping screws, ideal for robotics as well.
3. Battery pack: excluding the 4680 benefits, the design probably ends out saving not only the ~300 pounds Elon spoke of, but act to further reduce parts counts and further adapting to automated assembly and installation. On balance these should reduce parts counts again by at least 20.
4. During the annual shareholder questions Elon mused about reducing factory size by increasing throughput and simplifying all processes. He did not make cost prognostications, but said Fremont would've about 50% more production volume.
5. All of these are yet to be quantified, but even after the first new Y teardowns nearly everyone will have ignored the massive continuous improvement in manufacturing that has total redesigns happening will maintaining stable visual. Key example: Model S refresh.

I asked my best source to estimate the consequences of all this:
1. Paint shop: Probably cheaper to build than traditional shops. Why? Vastly less material needed and construction costs probably half those of traditional paint shops. Operation is likely to use less than 75% the paint typically consumed, many fewer employees (no estimate) while reducing waste by 90% or so. This may decrease total vehicle costs by $150 or more, while saving substantial rework typically needed. There ismore about paint, including the ability to use better (e.g. harder and more resilient) paints than can normally be achieved due to reduced waste and pollution.
2.and 3. The two front and rear castings have been estimated by others at reducing total construction cost by roughly 20%. When combined with the battery pack it is quite reasonable that the entire constructions costs may be reduced by 1/3.

Following the Grüneheide tour and the other revelations recently my sources are quite astonished.
Just for a bit of context, here is Assembly magazines 2020 assembly plant of the year:
They make mirrors, so are only tangentially connected.

In the end my astonished friend suggests that Tesla Grüneheide is set to produce Model Y for less than half what BMW spends for an X1. Frankly I have no idea but I'm positive that the order of magnitude is reasonable.

We all have noted that Tesla has been increasing Free Cash Flow, reducing inventory DOH, and growing far more than 50% per annum. In the process reducing capex!

All that has been happening by huge improvements in manufacturing process and product construction simplicity.

The easiest way to illustrate all these developments within Tesla we can compare the evolution of Model S:
2014 Model S P85D. 4936 pounds weight
2021 Model S Plaid 4941
Just reflect on the same weight for these two. Further the MSRP for mine were almost identical in US$, so no inflation at all.

Now the Model Y is undergoing far higher refinement in less time.
The above discusses costs, but weight reduction is maybe more consequential.
The weight reductions will help allow cheaper battery solutions, maybe even the new CATL Sodium ion cells. That alleviates supply issues and reduces costs further. Presumably 4680 form can be used with a wide variety of chemistries, thus reducing costs again.

After Grüneheide I think I have been understating the Tesla growth trajectory.
 
Really is a shame Elon is forcing all his slaves to move to Texas.

The left should be happy - the more Californians move to Texas, the better chance they have of tipping it blue. That’s the best way to solve the problems with Texas law they’re complaining about in the first place.
 
From that video posted a few posts up:


Elon: It takes longer to hit high volume production than it took to build the factory

News tomorrow: Musk says 2023 before Berlin producing in volume


Didn't hear a ton else of note in the talk or Q&A that we didn't already know (front/rear casts, advanced paint shop, etc), other than:

He referenced initial production using imported cells (likely from China he said- which would HAVE to be 2170 right?)- with volume local battery production- end of 2022 target... volume defined as enough for at least 5k/cars a week, ideally 10k.

He also had a remark that structural battery would be "with volume production" which again implies initial production is bog standard 2170 non-structure packs, with structural tied to 4680 volume being ready and coming later.
 
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So now it's sounding like Giga Texas will start with 4680's and Giga Berlin will be the one starting with 2170's. From a logistics stand point....that makes the most sense. Much cheaper and efficient to send batteries from China and send Kato production to Texas than the other way around.

I'm quite curious now what Tesla think they're going to do for production for both Berlin and Texas this quarter. It's hard to tell what's realistic and what's sandbagging. Elon on Q2 earnings call (and throughout Q3) made it sound sound the sky was falling with supply shortages and yet Tesla cranked out a 16% increase in production 🤷‍♂️
 
From that video posted a few posts up:


Elon: It takes longer to hit high volume production than it took to build the factory

News tomorrow: Musk says 2023 before Berlin producing in volume


Didn't hear a ton else of note in the talk or Q&A that we didn't already know (front/rear casts, advanced paint shop, etc), he referenced initial production using imported cells (likely from China he said)- with volume local battery production- end of 2022 target... volume defined as enough for at least 5k/cars a week, ideally 10k.
Giga Berlin will be making solar and energy products as well, that's news to me.
 
So now it's sounding like Giga Texas will start with 4680's and Giga Berlin will be the one starting with 2170's. From a logistics stand point....that makes the most sense. Much cheaper and efficient to send batteries from China and send Kato production to Texas than the other way around. I'm quite curious now what Tesla think they're going to do for production for both Berlin and Texas this quarter.
I believe both will be on 4680s. They wouldn't show 4680s during the factory tour if they didn't. Seems ramp of 4680s will keep up with ramp of two gigafactories.
 
Giga Berlin will be making solar and energy products as well, that's news to me.


I think he said "hopefully" or "maybe" when he mentioned solar?

That said, given we know they want to expand these products worldwide, local production seemed inevitable anyway.

He did say solar roof in EU next year but again had some kinda "maybe/probably/we hope" kinda disclaimer on it... did same with FSDBeta in EU.



I believe both will be on 4680s. They wouldn't show 4680s during the factory tour if they didn't. Seems ramp of 4680s will keep up with ramp of two gigafactories.


He specifically cited structural/4680 with "volume" production later in the Q&A.

And said initial Berlin production was batteries likely from China-- where 2170 exists but 4680 does not AFAIK.

So that reads 2170 non-struct to start, 4680/structural as volume comes online for the cells.
 
I think he said "hopefully" or "maybe" when he mentioned solar?

That said, given we know they want to expand these products worldwide, local production seemed inevitable anyway.

He did say solar roof in EU next year but again had some kinda "maybe/probably/we hope" kinda disclaimer on it... did same with FSDBeta in EU.






He specifically cited structural/4680 with "volume" production later in the Q&A.

And said initial Berlin production was batteries likely from China-- where 2170 exists but 4680 does not AFAIK.

So that reads 2170 non-struct to start, 4680/structural as volume comes online for the cells.
Usually you leave the solar products to China as supply chain is closer. And we hear no plans from giga Shanghai on energy products. So this was unexpected.
 
I believe both will be on 4680s. They wouldn't show 4680s during the factory tour if they didn't. Seems ramp of 4680s will keep up with ramp of two gigafactories.
Unless they're already making 4680 cells in China, what Elon just said at Giga Berlin contradicts that. Clearly said battery supply will be coming from Tesla China for the start of production at Giga Berlin.
 
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I believe both will be on 4680s. They wouldn't show 4680s during the factory tour if they didn't. Seems ramp of 4680s will keep up with ramp of two gigafactories.
If so, it may be a 4680 form factor but not necessarily with all the advanced chemistry they showed at battery day. Initial 4680s will have the tabless connectors, but possibly a conventional chemistry anode and cathode. Then later they would be upgraded with the dry electrode process, the silicon anode and the nickel-rich cathode. But this is just an educated guess on my part.