Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[CaliBear1]

Koper, Slovenia!

Not Kotor, Macedonia. I can’t believe they would choose Macedonia, as it’s not in the EU and certainly not convenient to their main South Eastern

Yes. One wy or the other. Read Butlers Jihad.

Since my last name is Butler, I’ve always been fond of this particular jihad.

 

[AquaY]

For anyone wondering the option size Elon is excersing before the yea end.

TLDR, about 12.3 million shares need to be sold or borrowed to pay his taxes.

Musk's Expiring Tesla Stock Options Put Elon in Perverse Tax Dilemma

Elon Musk's expiring Tesla stock options have put him in a perverse tax dilemma. This tricky situation is forcing him to either take on debt or sell shares.

www.hffinancial.com

I’m confused. I’ve been told the rich doin’t pay taxes?

 

[Paul_SF]

 

[Chenkers]

I told someone I would provide him a link to a good walkthrough of the Grünheide plant. Is there a consensus as to what might have been the best of the bunch?

It's hard to say what is the best walkthrough. There are several in German, a couple in English and some that are deep dives into aspects. Probably the most accessible starting point in English is Gali's walkthrough:

If they don't suit Gali's style, there are some others are linked below:
Darren Yoong (English):

GF4 (Mostly German):

WolfPack Berlin (German): Pt1

Pt2

@avoigt also has a couple but focussed on specific sections: Giga Berlin County Fair Part 1 Entrance

 

[FS_FRA]

More geography lessons: Kotor is in Montenegro. Macedonia would be a rather poor choice of a gateway indeed, considering its landlocked status....

You are of course right. Considering I’ve been to Kotor in Montenegro on vacation 2 years ago, this is pretty embarrassing for me

For simplicity, I think we should all agree that Koper is it, regardless.

 

[Skipdd]

Look at old media lamenting that the market doesn't care...won't somebody think of the children

Tesla Should Have Recalled Cars, Regulators Say

U.S. automotive-safety regulators want some answers from Tesla over its software and recall practices.

www.barrons.com

Glad the market doesn't care. I do think that this could unfold in a way that might be a thorn in Tesla's side. Reading through the NHTSA letter again now, and the inflection point appears to be, "NHTSA noted that the law says automakers must issue a recall 'when they determine vehicles or equipment they produced contain defects related to motor vehicle safety or do not comply with an applicable motor vehicle safety standard.' " A recall doesn't necessarily mean that Tesla has to bring cars into the Service Center, but they do have to file paperwork with the NHTSA and label it a "recall."

What is interesting to me is what standard gets applied here. I don't recall the numbers but I think there was a post some time ago with the number of accidents that occur where a car hits an emergency vehicle, where the car causing the accident is not using any type of AP software - and it was quite large as one would expect. So, then the question becomes, is Tesla's solution more or less safe than what exists w/o the software. If it is more safe, then how would that be classed as a defect related to motor vehicle safety...? What's the benchmark that is used to gauge this.

And getting this right with NHTSA is important as they could take punitive actions. It's not that different than living with rules that exist in China - Tesla chose to comply rather than fight. In the US there is more wiggle room, and maybe Tesla does need to fight.

I started reading the actual Safety Act, but I'm not an attorney and my eyes are glazing over - so I will defer to others on this forum who have more expertise in the law for their views.

 

[BornToFly]

Glad the market doesn't care. I do think that this could unfold in a way that might be a thorn in Tesla's side. Reading through the NHTSA letter again now, and the inflection point appears to be, "NHTSA noted that the law says automakers must issue a recall 'when they determine vehicles or equipment they produced contain defects related to motor vehicle safety or do not comply with an applicable motor vehicle safety standard.' " A recall doesn't necessarily mean that Tesla has to bring cars into the Service Center, but they do have to file paperwork with the NHTSA and label it a "recall."

What is interesting to me is what standard gets applied here. I don't recall the numbers but I think there was a post some time ago with the number of accidents that occur where a car hits an emergency vehicle, where the car causing the accident is not using any type of AP software - and it was quite large as one would expect. So, then the question becomes, is Tesla's solution more or less safe than what exists w/o the software. If it is more safe, then how would that be classed as a defect related to motor vehicle safety...? What's the benchmark that is used to gauge this.

And getting this right with NHTSA is important as they could take punitive actions. It's not that different than living with rules that exist in China - Tesla chose to comply rather than fight. In the US there is more wiggle room, and maybe Tesla does need to fight.

I started reading the actual Safety Act, but I'm not an attorney and my eyes are glazing over - so I will defer to others on this forum who have more expertise in the law for their views.

Lane keeping in other brands doesn't avoid safety vehicles on the side of the road. It is not a defect, it's a limitation of the current technology. Tesla downloaded new capability. The idea of a recall by NHTSA is stupid. Do all other brands need to recall all their vehicles?

 

[dhanson865]

Dead-End SF Street Plagued With Confused Waymo Cars Trying To Turn Around 'Every 5 Minutes'

A normally quiet neighborhood in San Francisco is buzzing about a sudden explosion of traffic. Neighbors say their Richmond District dead-end street has suddenly become crowded with Waymo vehicles.

sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com

Don't sell your TSLA yet, Waymo is trying to figure out one street at a time.

 

[Tim S]

View attachment 721264

I Am Not A Lawyer

 

[uujjj2]

The Model Y is a smash hit, the most successful product Tesla has yet introduced. It's the first product Tesla has ever ramped on schedule. It's the only product Tesla has introduced without serious quality issues. It's not only becoming Tesla's best selling car, it's poised to become the best-selling car, worldwide, period.

Yet Elon Musk barely acknowledges that the Model Y exists. From the phoned-in product launch to lack of mention on his twitter account, Elon doesn't seem that invested in the Y.

So what's behind Elon's coolness towards the Y?

 

[Tim S]

The Model Y is a smash hit, the most successful product Tesla has yet introduced. It's the first product Tesla has ever ramped on schedule. It's the only product Tesla has introduced without serious quality issues. It's not only becoming Tesla's best selling car, it's poised to become the best-selling car, worldwide, period.

Yet Elon Musk barely acknowledges that the Model Y exists. From the phoned-in product launch to lack of mention on his twitter account, Elon doesn't seem that invested in the Y.

So what's behind Elon's coolness towards the Y?

Did you miss this from the Q1 earnings call?

Elon Musk: Expect Tesla Model Y To Be Best Selling Car, SUV, Or Truck In World In 2022 Or 2023 - CleanTechnica

Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! To my ears, the ... [continued]

cleantechnica.com

"To my ears, the biggest highlight from the Q1 2021 Tesla conference call today was that Tesla CEO Elon Musk expects the Model Y to be the top selling light-duty passenger vehicle (top selling car, truck, or SUV) in the world in 2022 or 2023. He said he expects that it’s more likely than not that it will be in 2022."

 

[UCF3]

You have to assume he’ll take on debt. The rise in the value of SpaceX alone would allow him to take out more than enough debt against his space x shares

YeH no reason not to If his interest is 1-2% and he think his shares would appreciate more than that a year

You both make it sound so easy to borrow $8 Billion cash. This isn’t a line of credit, this is cash that must be then transferred to the IRS and the California Dept of Revenue. EM has borrowed a few hundred million dollars against his shares so far from banks like Goldman, but $8 Billion is something else. I predict he sells shares to pay the tax bill.

 

[mltv]

Not sure if this is real:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1448516382857986048

 

[uujjj2]

Huh? This is news to me. My thought was Elon mentioned the Y plenty. Featuring the Y as the initial product both Berlin & Texas - All you see is Y at the Gigafest. Mentioning it will outsell the 3, S, and X. Did I got transport to a metaverse?

Not saying Elon hates the Y. He can see the numbers and knows how well the thing is selling. The Y as the initial product at Berlin and Austin is obvious.

But I've been watching Elon Musk, his twitter feed, and reading TMC since 2007. And I just can't help but notice he's less invested in the Y than in other Tesla cars. Elon Musk likes the Y, he just doesn't love it like he loved the S, X, or 3, or loves the Cybertruck. It's like the other programs were personally run by Elon Musk while the Y was done by the Tesla team mostly on its own.

 

[Krugerrand]

The Model Y is a smash hit, the most successful product Tesla has yet introduced. It's the first product Tesla has ever ramped on schedule.

Uh, no. The Model 3 was actually a year early. Okay. I guess that doesn’t make it on time.

 

[Krugerrand]

You both make it sound so easy to borrow $8 Billion cash. This isn’t a line of credit, this is cash that must be then transferred to the IRS and the California Dept of Revenue. EM has borrowed a few hundred million dollars against his shares so far from banks like Goldman, but $8 Billion is something else. I predict he sells shares to pay the tax bill.

I thought his tax bill will be 12 mill and change; where do you get 8 bill?

 

[mltv]

Not saying Elon hates the Y. He can see the numbers and knows how well the thing is selling. The Y as the initial product at Berlin and Austin is obvious.

But I've been watching Elon Musk, his twitter feed, and reading TMC since 2007. And I just can't help but notice he's less invested in the Y than in other Tesla cars. Elon Musk likes the Y, he just doesn't love it like he loved the S, X, or 3, or loves the Cybertruck. It's like the other programs were personally run by Elon Musk while the Y was done by the Tesla team mostly on its own.

my guess is the manufacturing part of the Y is more of what he love, you may be correct there. It is a vehicle that people want. Not fun like the M3P or a beast like Plaid S. Got your point

 

[UCF3]

I thought his tax bill will be 12 mill and change; where do you get 8 bill?

Musk's Expiring Tesla Stock Options Put Elon in Perverse Tax Dilemma

Elon Musk's expiring Tesla stock options have put him in a perverse tax dilemma. This tricky situation is forcing him to either take on debt or sell shares.

www.hffinancial.com

According to this article, posted by Singuy yesterday, 12 million is the amount of shares that would need to be sold to exercise the options and pay the tax bill.

 

[MXWing]

Musk's Expiring Tesla Stock Options Put Elon in Perverse Tax Dilemma

Elon Musk's expiring Tesla stock options have put him in a perverse tax dilemma. This tricky situation is forcing him to either take on debt or sell shares.

www.hffinancial.com

According to this article, posted by Singuy yesterday, 12 million is the amount of shares that would need to be sold to exercise the options and pay the tax bill.

Somehow if Elon could use his SpaceX assets to pay the bill, that would be better for us. Clearly Elon selling shares is a NON ISSUE but I just don't feel like hearing the spin and narratives around this.

 

[Krugerrand]

Musk's Expiring Tesla Stock Options Put Elon in Perverse Tax Dilemma

Elon Musk's expiring Tesla stock options have put him in a perverse tax dilemma. This tricky situation is forcing him to either take on debt or sell shares.

www.hffinancial.com

According to this article, posted by Singuy yesterday, 12 million is the amount of shares that would need to be sold to exercise the options and pay the tax bill.

Ah, got it. Tx.