Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[M|S|M MYP]

Somethings going on AH...someone knows something

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Piper Sandler 1300 PT

Piper Sandler Sets New Street-High Tesla Stock Price Target (TSLA) - Tesla Daily

Piper Sandler analyst Alex Potter has issued an updated note on Tesla stock, increasing the firm's price target to the highest on Wall Street.

t.co

And just when MM's thought they had a handle on things......

 

[thx1139]

Fwiw though, Europe has massively underperformed the US and Asia the last ~30 years. While the US has remained about 25% of the global economy since ~1990, Western Europe’s share has declined from 34% to 19%. The last couple decades Europe has been the world’s economic laggard… 14 years after the meltdown real GDP per capita will still be lower in most W.European countries this year than before it.

If life only consisted of economic success.

 

[ninpb]

Even with the EV tax credit, the newer players like Rivian and Lucid will struggle.

With the new ev tax credit as it stands, Rivian's prices are above the limits. 55k sedan, 69k suv, 74k truck.
Rivian would do better if it doesn't pass and we keep existing ev credit of 200k cars, no price limit.

 

[RobDickinson]

Rivian are going to be production limited for (quickly calculate) 276 years.

No worries for them...

 

[Unpilot]

Spicy action AH.....

 

[Gigapress]

I'm not a constitutional lawyer, and I'm sure others could disagree, but it seems to me this statement directly allows for taxes on unrealized gains, not apportioned to states. A perfect example of this activity is the bitcoin impairment. Tesla has no taxable event associated with the reduction in taxes for BTC impairment, however there is a negative income effect and therefore a tax effect based on the movement of Bitcoin.

While the Bitcoin treatment is not necessarily a perfect analogy, mark to market treatment of securities seems to be close.

To wit: "Mark to market" or "MTM" is an accounting method where the price or value of a security reflects its current market value. As applied to taxes from trading it means that each security held open at year end is treated as if it were sold at fair market value (FMV) on the last business day of the tax year.

I believe you are reading too much restriction into the definition of income based on the current tax code. There is no reason that a law could not simply define income as "an increase in the value of a publicly-traded security(stock, bond, derivative, etc) as reflected by the current market value of such asset, as of the end of each calendar year."

Why would mark to market treatment of such an asset fail to pass constitutional muster?

I see where you're coming from but the Supreme Court already ruled on this in Eisner v. Macomber, 252 U.S. 189 (1920) and related cases. I'm not a lawyer either but their opinion clearly states that the constitutional amendment for income taxes was intended in the common dictionary definition of the term "income".

To wit, "Mere growth or increment of value in a capital investment is not income; income is essentially a gain or profit, in itself, of exchangeable value, proceeding from capital, severed from it, and derived or received by the taxpayer for his separate use, benefit, and disposal...Here, we have the essential matter: not a gain accruing to capital; not a growth or increment of value in the investment; but a gain, a profit, something of exchangeable value, proceeding from the property, severed from the capital, however invested or employed, and coming in, being "derived" -- that is, received or drawn by the recipient (the taxpayer) for his separate use, benefit and disposal -- that is income derived from property. Nothing else answers the description."

Eisner v. Macomber, 252 U.S. 189 (1920)

Eisner v. Macomber

supreme.justia.com

As far as I know from reading about this subject today, there is a long judicial history (dating all the way back to discussions the Founders had in writing the Constitution) about "direct" vs indirect taxes, and a personal tax on individual wealth would cleanly fit the definition of a direct tax whereas corporate earnings taxes would be indirect, making the Bitcoin mark-to-market accounting rule an impertinent point of comparison, because the apportionment clause applies solely to direct taxes.

So I still believe it is absurd to believe that Elon is suddenly going to be required to start selling off his stakes in Tesla and SpaceX due to this federal wealth tax proposal. If the goal is to tax ultrawealthy individuals more in the USA, there exist legal ways of doing it but I feel certain this proposal would be unenforceable if signed into law.

 

[Artful Dodger]

All-time closing high for TSLA

--5.42% GM
--2.63% F
+1.95% TSLA

Not sure watt's up in the After-hrs, but TSLA surely is: (nearly 20 bucks to $1,057)

TSLA After-Hours Quotes Live​

This page refreshes every 30 seconds.
Data last updated Oct 27, 2021 07:22 PM ET.

Consolidated Last Sale	$1054.31 +16.45 (+1.58%)
After-Hours Volume	684,239
After-Hours High	$1058.87 (07:09:33 PM)
After-Hours Low	$1036.25 (04:00:51 PM)

Cheers!

 

[Words of HABIT]

An interesting tweet from Gary Black - the second tweet here too:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1453437841069981700

Text in tweet:


How will this play out?

Gary Black's last pull out of TSLA in the mid $800s after peaking in January 2021 measured well with the unexpected six month delay of GF Berlin and GF Austin and significant delays with the Model S & X Refreshes. The new GFs are now imminent and the Refreshes are here, so it is a no brainer that TSLA should be back at its ATH now and resume its climb. Another 40% pull back is no longer in the cards, although minor pull backs are normal and can be expected for a healthy market. How will this play out? Gary Black will lose this one and regret his latest pull out of TSLA, and will buy back in at a much higher price than today. Those in TSLA will prosper. That's how it will play out.

 

[Christine69420]

Gary Black:

The avg $TSLA WS PT is now $755, -27% below the current price. While not a record, the spread is very wide historically. Analysts with Buy ratings on $TSLA have an avg PT of $990, also below the current price. Analysts don’t normally have Buy ratings with PTs below the price.

I think the point that most analysts with a buy are still <$1000 PT is useful. If these analysts don't want to switch their rating to hold or sell (and they shouldn't because they know the numbers that TSLA will be putting up in Q4 and beyond), they'll have to increase their targets like MS and GS just did. That could solidify the trillion dollar market cap.

Piper Sandler 1300 PT

Piper Sandler Sets New Street-High Tesla Stock Price Target (TSLA) - Tesla Daily

Piper Sandler analyst Alex Potter has issued an updated note on Tesla stock, increasing the firm's price target to the highest on Wall Street.

t.co

One, Two and Bingo

 

[Words of HABIT]

Not sure watt's up in the After-hrs, but TSLA surely is: (nearly 20 bucks to $1,057)

View attachment 726499

Cheers!

Tesla's AH is playing catch up to Ford, up +8.64% AH. Sheesh.

 

[anthonyj]

Shorts should buy their Depends and Imodium while they can still afford it

 

[Words of HABIT]

This last run up has been / is great, but I'm spending far too long here on TMC. My wife thinks I am having an affair, and her name is Tesla. Now time to enjoy the fruits of our labour and spend quality time with the family. See you guys soon.

 

[Nolimits]

Someone posted this before but Not going to lie.. GigaDetroit has a ring to it.

 

[Tyler34]

TeraDetroit sounds better to me

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Has anybody seen a number indicating what percentage of Teslas sales are in the USA?

Thanks.

 

[ZeApelido]

Robert Reich at it again with his monthly "Elon Musk is too rich" verbal gonhorrea.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1453502587387273218

 

[Mengy]

Someone posted this before but Not going to lie.. GigaDetroit has a ring to it.

I have to admit, it kind of does have a nice ring.

 

[Thekiwi]

Someone posted this before but Not going to lie.. GigaDetroit has a ring to it.

Should be the site of a teslabot factory at least, in honor of Detroit's most famous resident.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Should be the site of a teslabot factory at least, in honor of Detroit's most famous resident.

View attachment 726501

Anyone want to take bets on how long it would be until Tesla has one of those walking around the Gigafactory if there was a GigaDetroit?

I give it 6 months......tops. Tesla is a company run by sci-fi geeks after all