Cumulative investment since inception. That was all EV related....
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Wow, I don't know how I feel about that. On one hand the EV spinoff will probably do well, but on the other hand good old Ford will likely fall by the wayside.
It's not a spinoff. The idea is to report Ford's ICE and EV financials separately. That way it will look natural that ICE sales and profits are dropping while EV sales will be rising. Ford will say the EV profits will be great when they reach higher volumes. I can see this strategy delaying the inevitable conclusion that it's all over. The only way out of this eventuality is to recapitalize, innovate like crazy and run lean and mean. I just don't think Ford is up to it. They would need a lot of new talent promoted to positions above people that have a lot more seniority who would be tasked with changing the corporate culture and I just don't see that working. People don't like that kind of change.
I don't like to say things are impossible, but this is about as close as it gets.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
How dare you disrespect trash cans like that! Trash cans are useful!
Sad thing is that a lot of investors got misled by company and media and lost a lot of money
Imagine how many strong, power men these stocks have
… that have lost monies No lawsuits yet … but for how long
mars_or_bust
Member
Ii really seems that Elon's Starlink donation to Ukraine became a game changer to his and Tesla's public perception from a lot of previously completely hostile quarters.
Ford is doing extraordinarily well with it all. I also would not say Rivian has dropped out. Rivian has an immature corp team (inexperienced) but are actually increasing production. Ford started from nowhere in EVs. 20 years ago they had some plans that were torpedoed by 2008, then focused on profits which are hard to come by. Then just released very first car and it was probably the best "first" EV of any manufacturer- the mache was a real car and has done very well (i follow Sandy's tear downs, thanks in advance - when you actually watch all of them you will see that despite the issues with the mache that some things were better than the MY). Yes the mache is better than the roadster- 15 years later but better. Ford recognizes the value is splitting. The Ford Lightening is going to be released at production levels before the CT. They invested in Rivian instead of Nikola (GM) or a sandbox deep enough for their heads (Toyota Honda). They don't have the pro ICE factions threatening to dismiss the CEO (VW) when he talks about change.
Ford is doing everything needed to survive and we need that, the mission needs that. Sustainable transport will not happen if only Tesla succeeds. Good on the Ford team for being willing to tear it all apart to survive. GM is trying to survive via some Porter(wealth of nations strategy fame) like strategy of milking the cow to feed the stars (using ICE to fund EVs). Ford says ICE are holding EVs back and thus EV will grow faster without the leash. For an OEM this is brilliant and fast. By 2025- just 1-2 years after Tesla emerges from battery constraint mentioned on the last earnings call Ford will actually have their battery production facilities required to meet the current goals. They are building those, not outsourcing. Now then the question emerges as to sourcing or the supply chain. Ford has even started thinking about that. In summary, Ford seems to be a threat.
A threat to what? The ICE industry, I assume you mean.
I'm in the camp who believes that most legacy auto will survive and transition while start ups will most likely fail. Biggest problems with start ups are the lack of service centers, the brutal warranty repair cost time frame they must survive, and ability to scale up manufacturing. Legacy auto looks to have no problem in these areas.
As for a "threat", with gas prices at 4 dollars and being deemed as blood energy, the problem is not enough supply. Even if Tesla hit their guide by 2030, and this is at least 5x more ambitious than anyone else...it's still not fast enough. So for the next decade, the "competition" is irrelevant because "collaboration" is more needed to speed up this transition.
Intel CEO in SOTU ... is Mary next
Wonder what he thought about all the corporate bashing?
Actually no...it is to prepare for the spin off. Ford CEO is saying that ICE is holding EV back. He's correct. The solution is obvious and painful. Spin apart. Keep pension obligations in old company, debts, mortgages, etc. New EV company is clean, well funded and Ford will have a stake. It is the first baby step to the spinoff. It is very complex with such an old company. The number of corporate entities could number in the hundreds or more, finance this and that and bonds all over the place and tax credits and tax rates and union agreements and on and on. They'll roll all the crap into old Ford and set the EV Ford free. It is painful and brilliant. I don't envy the bastards having to do that. I'm heading out to the forests right now. Tesla's set the standard, Ford is competing for second place like everyone else. Just they seem to be doing what it takes to win second place. Second place beats oblivion. Ford EV could emerge as a very successful company.
That he was getting paid crazy money for almost driving Intel into oblivion and getting tax breaks like no tomorrow to build a factory complex?
Yep. It's exactly what Harley Davidson did recently by spinning their electric bike products out into the new and separate Livewire company. I think we'll see a lot of the old ICE companies doing similar separations over the next few years. VW will probably just convert some of their brands to pure EV while the ICE brands carry the company financially, I think they are large and diverse enough to be able to pull that off.
Tesla has made the near impossible look comparatively easy, and the companies which see the truth and react accordingly (Ford, VW) have a far better chance to survive than those who do not see reality (GM).
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
So these are fresh entities.....populated by the group of people least likely to succeed in EVs.
Even "the best" Ford execs are still Ford execs. Literally anyone else with large scale manufacturing experience would be more qualified because they're not tainted by a life in ICE.
Yes, Saudi Arabia should be quick to 100% solar+storage since it's literally the perfect setup for it. That will also be er happen.
Even "the best" Ford execs are still Ford execs. Literally anyone else with large scale manufacturing experience would be more qualified because they're not tainted by a life in ICE.
Yes, Saudi Arabia should be quick to 100% solar+storage since it's literally the perfect setup for it. That will also be er happen.
Those same "ford" executives still made a better first EV than Tesla. The door design on the mache is still better than the MY. Hubris is a dangerous path, it was not the only thing on the mache better than the MY.
The same "ford" executives have the brains to split the company and they are doing so without pissing off the unions and a major political party.
Why would SA do anything to facilitate a move away from oil? So what that it is the perfect place. They cant export it. There is no commonalty between Ford's actions and SA actions. IF there was you'd see SA building massive solar farms and trying to sell Aramco to China. Selling Aramaco to China today would be brilliant
As Supercharger distribution get denser, I agree with Elon. Today, I could still contend another 30% of range can be meaningful. Now if you’re trying to beat a McLaren 765LT in the ¼ mile, sure, optimize out to a lighter battery.
Guessing you never looked in the trunk of a Ford Focus EV to see how they packaged the battery pack?
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
This morning's volatility in the Pre-market has me at my wit's end.
I keep refreshing the screen thinking I've lost my internet connection, but the SP stays mostly the same.
Maybe things will pick up once they open the doors to the store.
Edit: Not that any of the daily action makes a hill of beans difference to a HODLer.
Much like Chauncey Gardiner,... I like to watch.
I keep refreshing the screen thinking I've lost my internet connection, but the SP stays mostly the same.
Maybe things will pick up once they open the doors to the store.
Edit: Not that any of the daily action makes a hill of beans difference to a HODLer.
Much like Chauncey Gardiner,... I like to watch.
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