Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[JRP3]

This is disappointing to me.

Life is full of disappointments. I'm disappointed you don't have a sense of humor.

 

[JRP3]

Verified words and actions are facts. They are not positive or negative.

Um, words and actions can be positive or negative.

 

[Mike Smith]

I'm concerned that long term damage is being done to the company. I hope I'm very wrong.

Elon is now a folk hero for the right, who previously hated him. This is way more important for Tesla than losing some people on the left who will likely buy a Tesla anyway since it's by far the best option, and in a year or two they'll probably change their mind about him again anyway.

As EVs go mainstream Tesla had to win over conservatives and Elon has pulled it off.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

What I wonder is why Elon is not socially smart enough to say the right things and get the wind at his back and create a constant FUD barrier. Elon defending BS is fine but creating it is foolish. Let me guess, people here think it's great and he has no issues. Watch the thumbs down for the predictable list Rant over. Paid my $8 for now.

I personally think a lot of you have some major paranoia due to your TSLA financial risk. I think very few people care in a negative way about Elon's antics on Twitter. Few relative to the overall population.

 

[ggr]

Mod: One mod (RSF) got overwhelmed and needs a vacation. Other part-time mod (me) just returned from one. So watch out:

1. At this point any discussion about Twitter, whether you think it should be in this main thread or not, SHALL go into the Elon and twitter thread. This is because it takes brain power on the part of the moderator to try to decide whether it is actually relevant to Tesla/TSLA and even if that particular post might be, it will almost certainly generate responses here that are not.

2. Elections are about politics. So are politicians. Think carefully about anything vaguely political.

3. There are too many off topic posts in this thread. Guess where they should go? Off topic galore

And a reminder: it is hard work for a moderator to exercise judgement, and also hard work to move posts. With the current volume in this thread, I will not strain my brain or fingers, when it is much easier to just delete posts. I say unto you, in the words of my uncle: Capiche?

--ggr

 

[ZeApelido]

One thing I think we can all agree is in a plummeting share price brings out the best in all of us.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

One thing I think we can all agree is in a plummeting share price brings out the best in all of us.

I see opportunity as we head towards potential global economic hard times, TSLA is one of the few companies positioned for profits and growth regardless. That will be valuable for investors seeking safe-haven from other less stable assets.

 

[Mike Smith]

Tesla fell with the ultra high PE stocks, but it fell so far that it's no longer an ultra high PE stock, so it didn't rebound today with the ultra high PE stocks.

 

[ZeApelido]

No SEC forms submitted yet so looks like we'll need to take it for at least another day from Daddy Elon.

 

[Chunky Jr.]

It certainly seems like the market is currently pricing in that Elon will dump all his TSLA in the next few weeks and Q4 deliveries below Q3 with negative margin. ie the market is crazy

 

[heltok]

A little OT, but not much...

After looking at Tesla's future competition in the US, the vehicles that I believe may be the toughest for Tesla are Hyundai/Kia and the coming vehicles from Foxconn. Hyundai especially has an awesome car coming next year, the Ioniq 6. Good looking, 380 miles per charge, nice interior and Hyundai knows how to make BEV's, a lot of them. Kia's EV6 is kind of a more compact version of the Ioniq 6, nice little car. And both are quite affordable.

But the real dark horse IMHO is Foxconn. They're buying the Lordstown factory in Ohio which has 500,000 vehicle capacity. And they've got some killer prototypes, 3 of which they recently showed off in the attached presentation. Now you may discount them because they primarily make iPhones, but they know manufacturing and that's easily adaptable to BEV's. They have plants in Taiwan, China, are building in India, and they're soon to be worldwide. Their model C and especially model E (damn them all to hell) are true Tesla competition!

Check out this presentation and the article in DriveTeslaCanada:

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/foxconn-shows-off-three-ev-prototypes-as-the-company-plans-expansion-to-become-an-automaker/?s=09

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/foxconn-consortium-announces-three-seater-ev/?s=09

Nice videos. The car looks decent, but regarding FSD they seem many years behind Tesla. Just look at this segment:

Lane lines jumping around, the car not centering well, not even a hard scenario, other car flickering in/out ie no memory, warnings flciker, new lane to the right not looking correct and showing up too early etc. And this is even with HD maps and Lidar. Is this the best they can show?

Then they talk about 3D and human+machine labeling, that is something they will be moving towards. Meanwhile Tesla have already mastered it. And the missing piece is the data engine, the fleet, the software 2.0 stack. It's not enough to just do auto labelling, you need to find the right clips to autolabel.

Later in the video:

They fail to draw a bounding box around the motorbike to the left of the vehicle. The other car, which likely is a company car, is driving so slow the motorbike decides to overtake it on the inside. Again is this the best they have to show? How many worse clips were rejected?

 

[wipster]

Nice videos. The car looks decent, but regarding FSD they seem many years behind Tesla. Just look at this segment:

Lane lines jumping around, the car not centering well, not even a hard scenario, other car flickering in/out ie no memory, warnings flciker, new lane to the right not looking correct and showing up too early etc. And this is even with HD maps and Lidar. Is this the best they can show?

Then they talk about 3D and human+machine labeling, that is something they will be moving towards. Meanwhile Tesla have already mastered it. And the missing piece is the data engine, the fleet, the software 2.0 stack. It's not enough to just do auto labelling, you need to find the right clips to autolabel.

Later in the video:

They fail to draw a bounding box around the motorbike to the left of the vehicle. The other car, which likely is a company car, is driving so slow the motorbike decides to overtake it on the inside. Again is this the best they have to show? How many worse clips were rejected?

Never got that far. I'm certain they're behind Tesla in autonomous driving, as is every other car manufacturer. But bear in mind these are still prototypes. My point isn't that they are current competition for Tesla, but I predict the largest maker of iPhones and their partners will be in the next couple years. I'm sure Tesla has a lot of eyes on them.

 

[wipster]

A little OT, but not much...

After looking at Tesla's future competition in the US, the vehicles that I believe may be the toughest for Tesla are Hyundai/Kia and the coming vehicles from Foxconn. Hyundai especially has an awesome car coming next year, the Ioniq 6. Good looking, 380 miles per charge, nice interior and Hyundai knows how to make BEV's, a lot of them. Kia's EV6 is kind of a more compact version of the Ioniq 6, nice little car. And both are quite affordable.

But the real dark horse IMHO is Foxconn. They're buying the Lordstown factory in Ohio which has 500,000 vehicle capacity. And they've got some killer prototypes, 3 of which they recently showed off in the attached presentation. Now you may discount them because they primarily make iPhones, but they know manufacturing and that's easily adaptable to BEV's. They have plants in Taiwan, China, are building in India, and they're soon to be worldwide. Their model C and especially model E (damn them all to hell) are true Tesla competition!

Check out this presentation and the article in DriveTeslaCanada:

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/foxconn-shows-off-three-ev-prototypes-as-the-company-plans-expansion-to-become-an-automaker/?s=09

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/foxconn-consortium-announces-three-seater-ev/?s=09

Foxconn Foxtron Model B

 

[Tommy O]

Never got that far. I'm certain they're behind Tesla in autonomous driving, as is every other car manufacturer. But bear in mind these are still prototypes. My point isn't that they are current competition for Tesla, but I predict the largest maker of iPhones and their partners will be in the next couple years. I'm sure Tesla has a lot of eyes on them.

Considering their recent comments that they hope to become a manufacturer for Tesla, I'm afraid they have no idea what Tesla or this market is about.

 

[wipster]

Mod: One mod (RSF) got overwhelmed and needs a vacation. Other part-time mod (me) just returned from one. So watch out:

1. At this point any discussion about Twitter, whether you think it should be in this main thread or not, SHALL go into the Elon and twitter thread. This is because it takes brain power on the part of the moderator to try to decide whether it is actually relevant to Tesla/TSLA and even if that particular post might be, it will almost certainly generate responses here that are not.

2. Elections are about politics. So are politicians. Think carefully about anything vaguely political.

3. There are too many off topic posts in this thread. Guess where they should go? Off topic galore

And a reminder: it is hard work for a moderator to exercise judgement, and also hard work to move posts. With the current volume in this thread, I will not strain my brain or fingers, when it is much easier to just delete posts. I say unto you, in the words of my uncle: Capiche?

--ggr

Screw it. I really really don't like to be threatened, especially by a moderator for a Forum I pay $80 a year to help maintain. So ban me if you wish. I love the intelligent people here and would miss everyone, but as a member I'm getting close to bagging it.

 

[wipster]

Considering their recent comments that they hope to become a manufacturer for Tesla, I'm afraid they have no idea what Tesla or this market is about.

I really doubt that. I think they know a lot more about it than you think. Anyway, time will tell my friend. Remember, the US is just a part of the global EV market and while Tesla has learned a lot, they don't know everything and Foxconn has been manufacturing things for a long time... in fact, you may be using one of their products now. Plus they're not dealing with the FUD Tesla is currently (for now that is).

I'm not defending them, just saying they could represent real competition in the relatively near future.

 

[mickificki]

Not sure if this has been discussed so apologies in advance but is it likely that Elon is still unloading tsla? I just checked and don’t see any form 4s.

 

[Opus BC fan]

Not sure if this has been discussed so apologies in advance but is it likely that Elon is still unloading tsla? I just checked and don’t see any form 4s.

No form 4s this evening. He may still be selling. I think we will know more tomorrow evening.

 

[MrMoo]

So? What if he needs to sell a billion or two every year to fund twitter? That's exactly what Bezos is doing to fund Blue Origin, yet nothing happened to Amazon stock when he does this. This entire scenario is either a display of irrationality of the market (assuming twitter is actually the reason behind TSLA's drop), or a display of correlation does not imply causation (if twitter has nothing to do with TSLA's drop).

Interesting example you chose. Considering AMZN is the same price now as it was in 2018.

 

[Tommy O]

Foxconn

I really doubt that. I think they know a lot more about it than you think. Anyway, time will tell my friend. Remember, the US is just a part of the global EV market and while Tesla has learned a lot, they don't know everything and Foxconn has been manufacturing things for a long time... in fact, you may be using one of their products now. Plus they're not dealing with the FUD Tesla is currently (for now that is).

I'm not defending them, just saying they could represent real competition in the relatively near future.

What advantage does Foxconn have over the Legacy Metal Benders, especially Toyota? Ambition and will? I'll agree to that. Can you point to other specifics other than they make the iPhone that I use?

Electronic device manufacturing expertise certainly helps in creating an EV from the ground up, but there's a hell of a lot more to it. I think @Gigapress had a good article with some related information: Giving Tesla a 15-Year Head Start Was a Bad Idea

Their public comments about hoping to manufacture EVs for Tesla are telling of their ignorance. What do you think about that?