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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I *LOVE* back of the napkin, rough estimates, without getting stuck in the weeds with thousands of details. Mostly to give me a feel for where things might be going. But, to view things like that it is necessary to take off the blinders. In other words, the glaring fault here is that you are using broad generalities to model a very narrow, very specific thing, auto revenues without FSD, without energy and without any other additive revenues and profits. When modelling uncertainty with broad general models like this, it actually helps to throw everything into the model because winners and losers might tend to balance out. In the end, no model looking out 7 years is ever going to be correct and the percentage of time it will be wildly incorrect, is high.

I think if you continue to have a dim view of Tesla's future energy prospects, FSD earnings, robotics, etc, you might as well just sell now and give up on Tesla ever offering superior returns again. I remain invested because I see something very special about the manner in which Elon runs his companies and I have more certainty about that than I could ever have while modelling auto profits more than a year out, or the P/E assigned to those at any given point in time. You seem to be trying to look at TSLA more like a story of a car maker who does well. I see more, much more. Time will tell.
As I explained, I have taken into account FSD and Energy,

"Remember this economic model for EPS is of course at the high end of the range, i.e. 20m by 2030 and maintaining 30% automotive gross margin (in a sense this is where FSD is taken into account). My model assumes success in energy at a lower GM%, and takes no account whatsoever of RoboTaxi or of Optimus."

This model also takes into account services though I didn't specifically mention that. What it does not take into account is wider Autonomy, or Finance.
 
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Love the growth in chargers, makes it look like all other charging networks don't care.

When I heard about Biden's big push for more charging stations, I hoped Tesla might single handedly meet the challenge, showing everyone who's boss.
 
Measuring on the 3D printed Cybertruck I have on my desk right now that I have no idea if it's accurate or not

Its 64/36 (cab/bed)

From my recent Petersen Museum visit
11627918-6109-4A9D-A175-F722C4F9CB10.jpeg
 
self reported comparisons (using his end of quarter prediction), I'd rather see a 3rd party track his early quarter, mid quarter, late quarter estimate error bars each quarter. He isn't willing to compare his own numbers in that way.

But people sure are willing to share his early quarter and mid quarter predictions and then forget about them when the new late quarter predictions come out.
 
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self reported comparisons (using his end of quarter prediction), I'd rather see a 3rd party track his early quarter, mid quarter, late quarter estimate error bars each quarter. He isn't willing to compare his own numbers in that way.

But people sure are willing to share his early quarter and mid quarter predictions and then forget about them when the new late quarter predictions come out.
Would need the same granularity from everyone of course, because everyone is constantly adjusting their estimates when new information becomes available.

I can barely find anything for historical EPS estimates from any of these people regardless of what combination of words I type into Google, and that doesn't happen often.
 
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The 4 countries in Electric Vehicle registrations in Europe: 14 countries, 90+% of BEV market are approaching 1000 deliveries. Two weeks earlier in the quarter than in Q4.
Most of the volume is Model Y so that might be Berlin production, but the last week we also got meaningful MIC Model 3 again (consistent with the arrival of a ship with Shanghai cars in Zeebrugge a couple of days).
In any case, the wave effect is going down.
 
@stopcrazypp in TMC posted an English translation of the EV ADAS competition video that was held in China in Oct 2022 where a Tesla Model 3 had a perfect score that far outstripped the competitors.

link to the post in TMC with additional translation of the video and event

Test results (out of 10 tests):
Tesla Model 3: 10 good
Zeekr 001: 4 good, 2 average
Changan SL03: 2 good, 1 average
BYD Han EV: 1 good
BYD Seal (Atto 4): 2 average

LightingScenarioBYD Han EVBYD Seal (Atto 4)Changan SL03Tesla Model 3Zeekr 001
DayFollow car at red lightPoorPoorAverageGoodAverage
DayCross intersection with no carPoorPoorPoorGoodPoor
DayCross intersection with carPoorAveragePoorGoodPoor
DayMerging Car in motionGoodAverageGoodGoodGood
DayPedestrians running red lightPoorPoorPoorGoodAverage
DayMerging car stopped on sidePoorPoorGoodGoodGood
DayTraffic ConesPoorPoorPoorGoodPoor
NightLeft turn into crossing pedestrianPoorPoorPoorGoodPoor
NightCrossing BicyclePoorPoorPoorGoodGood
NightDisabled vehicle in fog, opposing headlightsPoorPoorPoorGoodGood
 
So being relatively new to this and only ever exposed to "buy and hold" what about options? Do I just keep buying TSLA stock or do I look at options for less risk exposure?
If you don’t KNOW about options, stay the hell away from them. Doubly so with Tesla. Buy the stock, own the stock, understand the stock, discover it’s inner most secrets on a desert island cruise… then maybe once you have a good sized position, consider options with some money you don’t mind losing. Because everyone who plays with options loses eventually. That’s the way the game works.
 
Did anyone figure out how he lost so much money? Some options work, I presume…?
I don’t think he’s said any specifics. At some point on his podcast though, he really talked up buying options for leverage quite a bit.

Going big on a short term options bet that goes south is a very quick way to the poor house for sure.
 
If you don’t KNOW about options, stay the hell away from them. Doubly so with Tesla. Buy the stock, own the stock, understand the stock, discover it’s inner most secrets on a desert island cruise… then maybe once you have a good sized position, consider options with some money you don’t mind losing. Because everyone who plays with options loses eventually. That’s the way the game works.

Like I said, I'm far from a fan of options but, over the last 25 years, I'm hundreds of thousands of dollars up on options and will never go negative, because I only make relatively small bets, and only when I judge the odds are strongly in my favor. There are plenty of people who win with options, even if they are in the minority. The people who lose, play them all the time, just as a matter of course. I will go so far as to say most of them are addicts and cannot help themselves. They will play even if they can't find any plays with strongly favorable risk/reward ratios, which is most of the time.
 
I am finding the last couple of FSD / whatever you want to call it pretty amazing.

Is it Full Self Driving? Maybe not in all situations but it has been zero disengagements through stop signs, left turns and other usual driving situations for me.

It really is well beyond all the YouTube videos from the other production systems.

May take a while to be recognized since Elon has been describing it this way for a long long time.