-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
I was trying to be brief, so ignored the very first RAV4 although I should not have,
Otherwise i agree entirely with your comments, except that the Mirai was stupid for sure, but it was a technological success. As with several other Toyota models over the years, they can produce pretty good new technologies whether they make sense or not.
The only genuine Toyota innovation that had market success was the Prius. Even the official version of that history shows how initially odd the process was:
Global Website | 75 Years of Toyota | Section 8. Integrating IT and Exploring New Energy Sources | Item 1. Development of Prius and Hybrid Strategy
Official site for Toyota's A 75-Year History through Text.
www.toyota-global.com
From the 2000GT, taken from a non-Toyota concept that also produced the Datsun 240Z, to the Prius nearly all Toyota emphasis was on production efficiency and quality control. The two examples of 2000GT and Prius have been the primary departures from those emphases.
We'll see if the current regime can actually pull off another major transition.
Some continuing upheaval is definitely coming.
Overall the point is that some traditional OEM successes will happen. It is doubtful that they'll hamper Tesla, probably the contrary as the entire BEV market continues to conquer ICE.
To the extent they try really hard, TSLA stands to grow even faster than it does already.
I, personally, like that the plural of "Semi" is "Semi".
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Just read an article from Yahoo!Finance titled "Electric vehicles more expensive to fuel than gas-powered cars at end of 2022: consulting firm". The "study" concludes it was a few cents cheaper to fuel ICEV than EV last quarter due to the high prices of electricity while gasoline prices have declined... The study must use biased cost/consumption numbers that don't match common sense numbers that are readily available. Likely paid for by big oil. The FUD never stops.
I looked up that AEG report. It claims that it costs something like $11.60 per 100 miles for EVs charged at home vs. $11.20 for ICE cars. The report, however, does not describe any methodology, referring instead to another report for all the details. That other report, however, cannot be found anywhere.
As far as basic fact checking the numbers do not add up.
The average residential electricity cost in the US is $0.23/kWh. If I use Tesla Model 3 numbers of $220Wh/mile, the total cost of 100 miles will be $5.06. Tesla Model Y is 260Wh/mile and the cost of 100 miles is $5.98. Other cars in that category are in the same ballpark.
Of course, I could use the efficiency number for Hummer EV of 747Wh/mile. That is the least efficient EV among all EVs. That would result in even worse numbers that they mention, but I don't think that car is sold with an energy cost savings claim and it would have to be compared with an ICE Hummer which would definitely lose in any fuel efficiency contest.
The ICE 100-mile cost claim is also dubious. The average MPG of all cars sold today is 24.2miles/gallon. The average cost of 1 gallon of gas is $3.51 as of 1/28/23. The cost of 100 miles under these assumptions is $14.46, nearly 3 times higher than for an EV.
As far as basic fact checking the numbers do not add up.
The average residential electricity cost in the US is $0.23/kWh. If I use Tesla Model 3 numbers of $220Wh/mile, the total cost of 100 miles will be $5.06. Tesla Model Y is 260Wh/mile and the cost of 100 miles is $5.98. Other cars in that category are in the same ballpark.
Of course, I could use the efficiency number for Hummer EV of 747Wh/mile. That is the least efficient EV among all EVs. That would result in even worse numbers that they mention, but I don't think that car is sold with an energy cost savings claim and it would have to be compared with an ICE Hummer which would definitely lose in any fuel efficiency contest.
The ICE 100-mile cost claim is also dubious. The average MPG of all cars sold today is 24.2miles/gallon. The average cost of 1 gallon of gas is $3.51 as of 1/28/23. The cost of 100 miles under these assumptions is $14.46, nearly 3 times higher than for an EV.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
If you’re using a random chargepoint in the Rockies where the rate is $.55/kWh and it starts charging parking fees after 30 minutes it’s certainly possible to exceed the cost of gas.
But that’s a corner case.
larmor
Active Member
There is no guessing about where the company tesla is now compared with a year or so ago. More factories are spooling up and more revenue now.
AEG, the guy behind that "study", has a history of doing dishonest reports on the economics of EVs. He's undoubtedly being paid by Detroit, the oil industry, or both.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Actually my electricity from 4pm to 9pm costs $0.62/kWh at home. But, unlike the "study", I would never charge during those punitive hours.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Yikes! Guess we can’t complain about $.13/kWh!
It’s a pretty unfair comparison, I’d probably use EA’s Pass rate of $.31/kWh to compare if anything.
Agree. And now is the time to do it. The IRA credits and shipping cost benefits provide Tesla with the room to be less efficient during scaling without a monetary impact. They should totally do it now.
Are they? Shanghai has had quite a bit of down time in January. There will be some offset from other factories ramping but assuming they want to continue to flatten the wave I'd be surprised if Q1 blew the doors off in terms of sales.
hacer
Active Member
Toni's just saying that the constant refrain of TSLAQ, "fraud," is false - instead he acknowledges the number don't lie. There's still no explanation why he has an underperfom rating except that he might be stupid like Toyoda.
Tesla just had its best week since May 2013
Tesla shares rose 33% to close their best week since May 2013, boosted by positive economic data and an earnings beat.www.cnbc.com
View attachment 900506
If anyone can explain the above statement to me like i am 5 years old, i would appreciate it
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
AEG has done this previously:
Study Calculates EVs Have Higher 'Real World Refueling Cost' Than Gas Vehicles
But read the fine print, as the study makes some assumptions and some scary claims about electric cars.
www.caranddriver.com
The best time to get into Tesla was 20 days ago, the second best time is now.
So being relatively new to this and only ever exposed to "buy and hold" what about options? Do I just keep buying TSLA stock or do I look at options for less risk exposure?
Dirty Tesla compares 2 year old FSD Beta vs today's newest revision. Went from 10 disengagements + 8 interventions to 0 disengagements +0 interventions. People really have a hard time understanding incremental improvements. We complain after every release about how it didn't fix X, Y, and Z. However if you zoom out, the improvements are massive.
Last edited:
Imagine that...AEG has done this previously:
Study Calculates EVs Have Higher 'Real World Refueling Cost' Than Gas Vehicles
But read the fine print, as the study makes some assumptions and some scary claims about electric cars.
Buy and Hold. Options are for gamblers.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
