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LOL - I'm way behind on my reading. How about 19 days as of this morning :)

Somehow we lost another week of 5% days somewhere down the line.
Sorry to pop your balloon, but Max Pain is $162.50. So I guess that's that for this week.

Edit- thanks for @Artful Dodger's 10:24 AM reply explaining Wednesday's FOMC meeting an other relevant issues expected to overshadow Max Pain.
 
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A loan for an EV is one of the safer loans to make as I see it.

My view is that EM hangs with a lot of VC bros that are hanging on by their fingernails as this slow recession grinds on. They are begging him (and anyone) to shorten the recession so they don’t get crushed. EM is a good friend and responding to their pain.

Tesla is efficient and productive and will weather this painful period with resolve. Not so some VC ventures IMO.

Would be nice if he focused more on TSLA investor pain TBH.

Every time he has made these fears known we have seen deterioration in sales/margins etc. If I had listened to him along the way I'd have a lot more Tesla shares than I do now.
 
...

IMHO, still no better company than Tesla to invest in, just trying to be realistic. @TrendTrader007, I remember when you first started posting here on TMC back in 2016. I and many other TMC regulars thought your price projections where outlandish, almost absurd. Most of them came true, so good on you. TSLA has just been dialled back a notch or two. Time will clearly show Tesla's true worth.
I had forgotten about most of that, relevant though it obviously is! When I originally bought TSLA it was not entirely lacking in analysis, but was based on perhaps spurious logic.

At the time, late 2012 early 2013, I drove a Model S85 for a few days around the San Francisco area when I was attending an investors conference. My passengers and I were blown away. I thought about the California compliance BEV's (I drove the EV1, Honda EV Plus earlier and, later, the second generation Toyota RAV4 EV with Tesla, agin later the Mercedes Benz B-Class). I then thought about how wonderful the S85 was and how both Toyota and Mercedes Benz were shareholders. Then, I thought Tesla could and probably would fail but it would be snapped up by one of those two shareholders and life would be rosy. After all that Model S had Mercedes suppliers for the two cooling systems, most switchgear and much else, so Mercedes was a logical choice, while Toyota gave the Fremont factory and seemed a logical choice too. After all they both sold Tesla-powered cars.

Back then my logic was it would be hard to lose with those potential exit strategies. The idea that Tesla would itself succeed where Kaiser could not (I was born in deeply Kaiser country in a Kaiser hospital with a family who thought Kaiser-Frazer would rule the world-my age is the same as Kaiser Permanente also) seemed preposterous to me, even though I know about and was impressed by Zip-2 and PayPal, having invested in the latter when virtually ordered to do so by a client. This may be 'too much information' but it does set the stage for early investors, perhaps many of us.

While the PayPal and later Tesla investments happened i no longer lived in the US so I watched at long distance. PayPal landed with eBay, so I sold. TSLA I continued to watch.
The came the P85. OMG, I ordered one and True, I bought a place in Miami to keep the car. They offered me a P85D instead so I took it. A few weeks later I began to liquidate reserves and buy TSLA. By then I was prepared to assume the risk, after all Tesla was not yet dead and had just made massive improvements since 2012, and on my first long trip with the P85D autopilot came in a software update while I was charging my car at a hotel in Columbus, Ohio. (by then, every human who saw an electric car made gigantic adaptations to help charging, including that hotel which connected me to an outlet used for outside lighting). By the end of that trip I had already liquidated much of my other commitments and loaded up on TSLA.

Nearly everyone thought I was crazy. I responded, "probably, but this one will work out well, with acrobatics maybe, but well" (actual quotation from my correspondence). I've been HODL ever since and will remain so unless Tesla begins to act like a traditional OEM, Hence I watch closely and stay long.

I know several people who've tried more active instruments, but all of the ones I know who did that lost everything they'd 'invested'. Only one I know is still trading actively in TSLA. He is actually with a market maker so he's not actually speculating. That shows in his residences and transportation choices. Were I a market maker I'd trade too. It's nice to be the house!

Now looking at the near future we will have more volatility, zero doubt. We may even, if the recession(s) are sufficiently severe reduce prices further and adopt more leasing options. We'll also see Tesla Energy continue with explosive demand. The future will not be either easy nor pleasant in many aspects but TSLA now is in a closely analogous position to that of General Electric in the 1930's. Innovation will prevail (GE moldable plastic in 1930, rapid electrification, electric refrigerators and so on). Tesla is right at the cusp of that sort of advance. So, recession can be an opportunity when the products are correct.

Please think about the prior paragraph when you worry about Tesla having reduced demand.
People thought that about GE too. Personally I think that might have been J. Pierpont Morgan's best idea, and Thomas Edison's best initial products.
 
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Yes many people will want a truck that size. In fact, they already do. The Cybertruck and the Raptor are about the same dimensions as the F-150, the best-selling truck vehicle every year for the last four decades. Cybertruck is squarely aimed at the most popular segment for North American truck demand.
FIFY, it's more dominant than that . Best selling vehicle 41 years, best selling truck 46 years.
Ford F150 best selling vehicle in US
 
Article might be paywalled.

More here: (this has been in the works in California for a while)

[PDF] CA Trucking Incentive Guide | Nov 24, 2022

PepsiCo/Fritolay almost certainly benefiting from this incentive plan with its nascent fleet of Tesla Semi trucks.

Cheers!
 
Sorry to pop your balloon, but Max Pain is $162.50. So I guess that's that for this week.

This week is all about the FOMC meeting (as usual), and that's Wednesday. Another opp. for shtz's. :p

This Week's Major U.S. Economic Reports & Fed Speakers​


Time (ET)ReportPeriodActualMedian ForecastPrevious
MONDAY, MAY 1
9:45 amS&P U.S. manufacturing PMIApril50.449.0
10:00 amISM manufacturingApril46.7%46.3%
10:00 amConstruction spendingMarch0.0%-0.1%
TUESDAY, MAY 2
10:00 amU.S. job openingsMarch9.6 million9.9 million
10:00 amFactory ordersMarch1.2%-0.7%
WEDNESDAY, MAY 3
8:15 amADP employmentApril143,000145,000
9:45 amS&P U.S. services PMIApril53.753.7
10:00 amISM servicesApril52.0%51.2%
2:00 pmFederal Reserve interest-rate statementMay
2:30 pmFed Chair Powell press conference

IMO, if JPow doesn't get spanked publicly for his gaff with Russian phone pranksters revealing his future rate hike plans, then that's another confirmation that we live in a simulation (the one where facts don't determine the outcome, yet determinism rules the universe / maximum irony). /s

Cheers!
 
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IMO, if JPow doesn't get public ly spanked for his gaff with Russian phone pranksters revealing his hand, then that's another confirmation that we live in a simulation (the one where facts don't determine the outcome, and determinism rules the roost). /s

Cheers!
I can't imagine there are many jobs where people wouldn't be fired over screw up that large. Wild. Not very comforting that the man who has the most control over our economy is so easily fooled.
 
I can't imagine there are many jobs where people wouldn't be fired over screw up that large. Wild. Not very comforting that the man who has the most control over our economy is so easily fooled.

For those who don't know what happened, the prank call in question likely occurred around Feb 2nd, 2023 but wasn't reported publicly until last Thursday (another serious gaff):
Cheers!
 
A loan for an EV is one of the safer loans to make as I see it.

My view is that EM hangs with a lot of VC bros that are hanging on by their fingernails as this slow recession grinds on. They are begging him (and anyone) to shorten the recession so they don’t get crushed. EM is a good friend and responding to their pain.

Tesla is efficient and productive and will weather this painful period with resolve. Not so some VC ventures IMO.
Note to your 'safer loans' point. GE Contracts Corporation was founded in 1932. Nobody else would sell electrical appliances on credit so they did it themselves. The history of captive finance in full of similar ideas, famously General Motors Acceptance Corporation (now Ally Financial) in 1919, in the midst of the post WWI US recession.

If there is even modest negative impact on Tesla sales from the current developments Tesla will have its own financing products front and center. In auricular, with US laws as they now are leasing products will have huge growth, primarily because they eliminate the income constraints on Federal rebates.

In this environment TSLA can supply financing at lower rates than almost all the present major auto lenders, in large part because Tesla has resisted all the incredibly stupid calls to do stock buybacks and or dividends. Right now the Tesla fast cash conversion cycle and amazingly strong financial condition are crucial advantages.

Everyone might call I have been largely opposed to Tesla direct financing. When the money is easy there is no advantage to do so. As both GM and GE decided, in recessions is the time to build market share and wide adoption. Just like GE with electrification, Tesla can speed Supercharger deployment as they already are doing, and offer an array of financial products to help fleet sales, retail sales, Tesla Energy products and more.

Everyone, these are the conditions for which Tesla has been preparing. We'll see all that happening this year and next. Most of us will be surprised how quickly this is happening.
In this respect, Elon and Zach are fully prepared.

For everyone worrying, don't, this is when we'll all be better.

[The foregoing is really not advice. How would I know anyway? I'm just an old finance and marketing guy, long sort of retired.]
 
A loan for an EV is one of the safer loans to make as I see it.

My view is that EM hangs with a lot of VC bros that are hanging on by their fingernails as this slow recession grinds on. They are begging him (and anyone) to shorten the recession so they don’t get crushed. EM is a good friend and responding to their pain.

Tesla is efficient and productive and will weather this painful period with resolve. Not so some VC ventures IMO.
Elon didn’t say Tesla wouldn’t push through, but he has been sounding the recessionary alarm for a while now and was saying the rate hikes needed to stop last year. Now he's saying that his data availability through his own companies, including Tesla, gives him great insight into the state of the economy and not that his VC bros are struggling lol

I think autos are right up there with real estate in terms of being affected by interest rate movements, these are large purchases that are generally financed and that's not considering overall tightening of financial conditions, decline in asset values across the board leading to less cash available for spending on cars (among higher earners with lots of assets), etc.
 
Interesting thread.

“With all the concern about $TSLA in *China*… I feel like many do not know about something very unusual happening right now in the car market Non-compliant ICE cars sold at up to 50% discounts causing a temporary switching effect which dampens EV demand.”

Yes the ICE cars are discounted but the plates are 10s of thousands each. China limits the number of ICE/PHEVs that can be bought every month.
 
Everyone, these are the conditions for which Tesla has been preparing. We'll see all that happening this year and next. Most of us will be surprised how quickly this is happening.
In this respect, Elon and Zach are fully prepared.

For everyone worrying, don't, this is when we'll all be better.

So then we'll all be flying down to Rio for Mardi Gras, to cruise around in a Kaiser Darrin? With cash spilling out of our pocket doors? :D



Saúde!
 
If there is even modest negative impact on Tesla sales from the current developments Tesla will have its own financing products front and center. In auricular, with US laws as they now are leasing products will have huge growth, primarily because they eliminate the income constraints on Federal rebates.

In this environment TSLA can supply financing at lower rates than almost all the present major auto lenders, in large part because Tesla has resisted all the incredibly stupid calls to do stock buybacks and or dividends. Right now the Tesla fast cash conversion cycle and amazingly strong financial condition are crucial advantages.

Request for clarification: aren't Tesla sourced loans and leases detrimental to the fast cash conversion cycle? Rather than receiving sales price for a car before paying suppliers, they instead carry the cost along with future revenue stream.

Or can this be offset by 3rd party revolving credit facilities? A $5 Billion line of credit, expandable to $7 B, was established earlier this year with Citigroup.
Tesla TSLA May Get Up to $7B Credit Line, Indicating It’s Nearing Investment-Grade Status
 
THIS is an interesting and correct analysis. We can become complacent looking at our TSLA holdings as having a 900% gain or whatever (for OG stockholders) but if you look at it as how much per year it is generating, the numbers come back down to earth. Now 47% annual return for 13 years on average is a hell of a good stock but there are other growth companies NOW that could do similar things going forward from now. Unfortunately none of them are probably run by as good a business person as Elon, but YMMV. Just something to keep in mind.
I had to disagree with this, and let me tell you why - namely, if TSLA existed in non-rigged trading system, I'd agree 100%.
We all know it is the opposite. This along with induced FUD, 'inflation', korona money printing, folding banks, and another oil/gas war does not help at all.

It is what it is, hence the price but don't tell me TSLA is over valued. It is not.
 
It should, however be based on miles driven. That wouldn't be hard to implement. Annual vehicle inspections record milage. Hook that into the tax assessor and you have a fair equivalent to the gas tax.

edit: sorry, was offline doing life this weekend and haven’t caught up. @JRP3 and others scooped me
Indeed, rather than a flat tax, a state EV tax should be based on either miles driven or electricity consumed (which is already taxed). That would be similar to a gasoline tax. EV inspections are not required in my state and many others. Tesla should be able to provide the necessary information to state tax collectors. But the question remains as to whether the already existing taxes on electricity are sufficient, making any further EV taxes unnecessary.
 
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So then we'll all be flying down to Rio for Mardi Gras, to cruise around in a Kaiser Darrin? With cash spilling out of our pocket doors? :D



Saúde!
Here it is Carnival. As for the Darrin, the prettiest Henry J is about the best I can say about it.
OTOH, I was familiar with the Henry J as a child.It was pretty good as a lawn statue, the way I saw it. Recalling that did make me a trifle reserved about Tesla, obviously no comparisons were ever valid.