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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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In fairness to him, Musk’s last package was all or nothing. He receives no salary. If Tesla stock had gone nowhere since when the package was announced, he would have gotten nothing. Tesla Bears had a field day with the package back then claiming he would never see a dime of it.

I believe a majority of Musk’s Tesla stake comes from his early investments in the company. As mouth watering as his comp package was, it did not deliver as many shares as he acquired in the early pre-IPO days.

True. I agree he deserve another comp plan. I have no problem with comp plans incentivized with the success of the company.


In Q1 2018, when Musk's comp plan was announced, there was similar sentiment. "Negative earnings Q after Q! Flat stock for years. What is he thinking?" With TSLA's market cap averaging right around $50B, a stock-only comp plan with vesting traunches at every $50B change in market cap up to $650B seemed insane to many. Yet, within less than 3 years we all saw what Elon saw prior to Q1 2018, perhaps a decade before most; TSLA should not be measured in TENS of $Bs or even hundreds of $Bs...but $TRILLIONS. Now we are being openly told TSLA should be measured eventually in the TENS of $T market cap. I would wager Elon easily sees HUNDREDS of $T; but he can't say that cause it sounds insane. How can one company be worth more than the world GDP?

Welcome to the age of abundance the likes of which humanity has never known.

Elon has the benefit of extreme foresight. He's like Ray Kurzwell meets Edison...or whatever. To understand his comments, we must also see into the future. Those of us who saw in 2018 with conviction and doubled down the summer of 2019 when the picture was painted as hopeless...well, we only wished others had done the same. Unfortunately, there are those who continue to try to dismiss him by staring into the rear view.



Sure many people thought that plan was unrealistic, not tone-def of what was going on at the time. I have no problem with a comp plan - makes sense really. Just the timing doesn't seem the best, but I guess you could argue "when would be a good time?".

In fact, arguing against myself, if you are Elon you probably want to negotiate a new plan "on the dip" in share price in expectations. It actually means he is really bullish on future valuation and wants to get something done now.

I'm just curious what the board's current take is, given he is leaking to X I'd have to think he is frustrated.

On the other hand, giving Elon another huge swack of stock options invites more mischief from short sellers who even now live in hope for the day when Elon starts selling shares to pay the taxes on his stock-based compensation. Remember last time? It was just 1% of the companies shares, and the shortzes parlayed those fears into a 75% drop in the SP (from which it has still yet to recover even after 3 years). What do you think will happen before Apr 2028 when Elon inevitably sells 5% of TSLA (less dilution since Apr 2018) to pay the taxes due on excercising his stock options? How about when he sells his shares for cash to fund Mars Base One? The shortzes live for that day, I swear.

Again, "manipulation" did not cause a 75% drop in share price. Instituations realizing rapidly detoriating margins were coming did.

Shorts definitely amplified the severity of the drops on the days Musk sold, but those aren't long term lasting effects.
 
The range of Roadster 2 is a side effect of the pack size needed for the power output for top speed and acceleration (based on current chemistries) along with its efficiency due to lower weight and aero drag. (energy due to power)

It's the counterpoint to Semi which has high acceleration and climbing performance due to its high energy pack. (power due to energy)

Regarding timing, they may have (partly) been waiting on 800V vehicle systems. Steer by wire may have also been a consideration to enhance safety at 250MPH. To misquote Maverick, "If you twitch, you die"

Engineering Analysis: Tesla Roadster Performance Specs Validated

In the decade between gen2 Roadster reveal and production, it's safe to assume that there will be significant improvements made in both battery gravimetric energy density and C rates.
 
Tesla not allowing people to buy leases doesn't have anything to do with Robotaxi. That was once what Tesla said, but they sell the cars after lease.

Another reason people don't lease is the mileage limits on the car.
... and we're glad they do! We bought our beautiful max'ed out 2018 MX just lease-returned that morning. A great car at a great price. Color us happy!
 
Again, "manipulation" did not cause a 75% drop in share price. Instituations realizing rapidly detoriating margins were coming did.

Shorts definitely amplified the severity of the drops on the days Musk sold, but those aren't long term lasting effects.
Musk sold large blocks in April 26-27 (after crushing EPS Q1 estimates), Aug 5&9 (after handidly beating EPS Q2 estimates), Nov 4&7-9,and Dec 11-14 of 2022. You don't need to get deeper in the weeds than this. Take a look at the stock chart and look at how the price correlates during and after these selling dates April, September (the effects of selling was lagging from Aug because of the 3:1 split), November, and December. Its plain to see his stock sales are egregiously amplified at these times. Margins did not drop 75% (they dropped about 25%). Furthermore, SP is more correlated to EPS or EBITDA than margins, and these didn't fall significantly because of growing volumes to offset margins.

Dark pools. Naked shorting. Paid for FUD media. Don't underestimate the power of the dark side. They encourage high volatility. The volatility is exactly what entices the never-before-seen-at-this-volume-in-the-history-of-the-market options activity we continue to see in TSLA. Options are where MMs make their money. Just as the media manipulates fear to garner clicks, wall street manipulates fear to garner volatility. Both make the big bucks.
 
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At $250,000 Tesla can't make the roadster in volume because there's not a volume of buyers for a $250,000 car.

...
Without comment on Roadster speculation, the price comment is not relevant simply because of highly desirable products revolutionizing price-demand precedent. There are numerous cases on point in numerous industries. Tesla itself has had multiple examples. Here are a few:
Apple Watch;
In 2019, Apple shipped 30.7 million units of Apple Watch, more than the entire Swiss watch industry.

Bringing this particular statistic into focus paints a captivating picture of the dominance of Apple Watch in the global watch industry. Against all odds, the single brand of Apple outshipped the collective might of the centuries-old, highly reputable Swiss watch industry in 2019, with a staggering 30.7 million units. Within the broader narrative of Apple Watch market share data, it sends a powerful message regarding consumer preference and technological trends. It echoes the transition from classic, mechanical timepieces to digital, multifunction smart watches, and underscores Apple’s leading role in this revolution. These numbers also speak volumes to Apple’s capacity to not only keep pace with, but outdo, traditional market players in terms of volume, quality, and consumer appeal. The immense scale of 30.7 million units alone is a testament to Apple Watch’s impressive market share as well as the potential growth and influence of the smartwatch industry.
Bentley Continental 2003;
The first generation Bentley Continental GT was named the most significant production car design at the NAIAS eyes on design awards, since then the car has won numerous awards including Grand Tourer of the Year award by Top Gear magazine, and is twice winner of the ‘Classic Car of the Future’ award from Motor Klassik magazine. It was a sales success almost overnight, propelling the brand to over 10,000 sales per year.
The notable fact is that the car was widely predicted to be a failure because the Total world market for cars above US$100,000 in price was <5,000 per year in 2002 (source: 2002 unpublished consultants report).
Following the huge success of the Bentley Continental many others followed and high price car markets soared. The clone of the Bentley was the VW Phaeton, built almost identically except for The VW badge and a lower price. It was an abject failure, but a fantastic bargain!
2013 Tesla Model S;
We all know this one, probably, but look back to 2013 and CNBC.
According to later data from securitized lease data and proprietary study done for a 'competitor', the US Tesla Model S buyers were deeply bi-modal, with huge modes around $50-$80,000 income per annum and another >$150,000 income per annum. There were smaller grouping in other classes. Partly because of that highly unusual distribution, unlike that of Mercedes Benz S class, BMW 7 series, which were then considered similar positioning.

In each of these three the fundamentnal isuue was that these three products did not just gain share from other similarly priced products. Each created a new and different market thus defying the very notion of target addressable market, itself assuming a static market.

So, how about a seemingly really strange example that proves market size logic is usually wrong if the product is sufficiently compellin:
Cessna Citation 500
This one absolutely invented a market that did not exist previously and was thought to be impossible. It was cheap (relatively), easy to fly, and could be flown by a single pilot.

In short, possibly the best parallel for the Tesla Model S is the Citation, because everyone tried to dismiss it but it single-handedly delivered turbojet operation for owner-pilots, somthing that had not previously happened. Then larger variants continued to expand the market.Then, when Cessna made a new one, the CitationJet 525, that was faster, flew higher and further and cost less to operate, they reinvented the market they had created. Then numerous variants have been further expanding the market.

In my firm opinion the best comparison to the Tesla SEXY really are Cessna Citations. Both defied any potential comparison, both created new markets, both rapidly made variants using the base principles.
About the, the comparison breaks down because Cessna did not really make manufacturing excellence a goal, nor did they continuously improve fundamentals. Because of that Cessna more nearly resembles Ford with Model T than it does Tesla.

As a former owner of both Tesla Models (2014 S, 3, and a 2021 S) and a very early Cessna Citation 525 SN0041) I cannot even begin to explain the quality control and constant evolution of Tesla to the laughable early 'Quality Control'/s of the Citation 525.

While Tesla has been constantly improving, some of the other examples really did not, although they all have held on well to their newly developed markets.

We now are in the midst of severe manipulation and FUD and many of us are disheartened. We should not be so pessimistic. Obviously, some retail traders are in dire straits. people who HODL see paper gains and paper losses but constant improvement in long term prospects, for Automotive, Services and Energy.

Despite global tensions TSLA still has positive net cash flow and maintains a torrid development pace for new raw material sourcing (including lithium refining), technological development (48v, stainless, structural packs, heat pumps and so much more such as Optimus, factory OS, rapidly evolving AI application taut to name a few.

Apart from, say, SpaceX, what companies have such amazing capabilities? What other company has invented so many unprecedented advances? What other has invented new markets but also invented the infrastructure to support heretofore non-existent products?

Just look at the examples above. Not one had to invent support systems for their breakthroughs. Among those examples only Apple and Tesla have developed an 'ecosystem' that spans their product line so each product builds to reinforce their customer base while increasing loyalty.

Our challenge in 2024 and future years is to understand how all this is developing and begin to appreciate the value. At the same time we need to understand that FUD and general ignorant coverage will continue and from time to time even increase. In doing so we might also think about the Apple comparison, including the oft-repeated critics that claim Apple has not competitive advantages and technology is inferior. Then we might think of two things those two companies share: First, logistics management that has very few peers. Second, an approach to customer and product interaction that yields constant evolutionary improvement in both existing and new products.

The only way all this really makes sense is to view the totality and absolutely ignore obsession to quarterly sales and even production of vehicles. When many of our own promote short term earnings and vehicle production/delivery we often cannot resist the temptations to pay attention. if we cannot there is one quarterly metric we can watch in confidence that it is relevant: Free Cash Flow.

In the meantime keep a close watch for continuing innovation in materials, logistics and manufacturing. While those three continue combined with healthy Free Cash Flow we will know all is well with our investments. All the rest is just noise!
 
Even Henry Ford couldn’t sell only one color forever...
Before 1909 and after 1925 there were color options. Even between 1909-1925 many Ford dealers did repainting prior to delivery. My father had a green one in ~1919, albeit a pickup equipped to carry his beehives from orchard to orchard.

Of course the present solution is wraps, frequently seen on all Tesla models. Factory paint colors are becoming less important as wraps become cheaper and easier to use.
 
Musk sold large blocks in April 26-27 (after crushing EPS Q1 estimates), Aug 5&9 (after handidly beating EPS Q2 estimates), Nov 4&7-9,and Dec 11-14 of 2022. You don't need to get deeper in the weeds than this. Take a look at the stock chart and look at how the price correlates during and after these selling dates April, September (the effects of selling was lagging from Aug because of the 3:1 split), November, and December. Its plain to see his stock sales are egregiously amplified at these times. Margins did not drop 75% (they dropped about 25%). Furthermore, SP is more correlated to EPS or EBITDA than margins, and these didn't fall significantly because of growing volumes to offset margins.

Dark pools. Naked shorting. Paid for FUD media. Don't underestimate the power of the dark side. They encourage high volatility. The volatility is exactly what entices the never-before-seen-at-this-volume-in-the-history-of-the-market options activity we continue to see in TSLA. Options are where MMs make their money. Just as the media manipulates fear to garner clicks, wall street manipulates fear to garner volatility. Both make the big bucks.
What I get out of this is "Musk sold and the stock dropped when it should have gone up, therefore manipulation." Is that right?
 
Tesla *should* have a huge advantage when Dojo comes online *AND* engineers use it at their primary means to production. This means models built and optimized for the Dojo stack (compiler, drivers, data and control plane...etc). This has to be better than CUDA as well as better than the CUDA 2 year roadmap. This roadmap is often shared with large companies so that they can put their feature requests in way ahead of time in order to influence the roadmap to foster better features that will result in more GPU spend.

And obviously we won't know until they or Elon start posting or giving talks about it. And I wait for this announcement!

For folks keeping score, Google is way ahead with TPUs and does not heavily rely on GPU for in-house training, Amazon does not use their custom ASICs for in-house large compute as it is currently just for AWS, Microsoft is still in-bed with nVidia as is Meta.
 
This video resonate so much with the summary I did a few weeks ago after test driving the BYD, there is the appearance of more, adding thigs that doesn't matter, more useless details on the exterior that likely hurt aerodynamics, a screen that rotates, a "luxury" interior with a mess of parts and details

But when comes to the part that matters? Like routing you through chargers? Nope, can't do something that basic in 2024

 
It’s interesting. I’m involved in a “discussion” with a bunch of petrol heads on X about how the Cybertruck stainless steel will/wont rust. They had no idea that CT uses a proprietary steel alloy that is way more rust resistant than any normal grade of SS. And why would they know? If Ford had developed that alloy, you’d hear about it non stop on TV ads. Tesla doesn’t even mention it, like anywhere. The only reason we know about it is that Sandy Munro interviewed Lars Monravy on a Munro YouTube show that got all of 400K views.

Im not trying to restart a Tesla advertising debate here. I just find it fascinating that Tesla can have such a huge backlog of Cybertruck orders without even touting some of its basic, but very special and worthwhile, features.
 
Tesla drivers stranded? It's been a long time since I've seen something like this. If the story is accurate, let's hope Tesla does something to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Hum, that is a V2 location at at Meijer with 10 posts.
There is also an Electrify America with 10 adjacent.
Article sounds like local commuters without preconditioing.
SmartSelect_20240115_121121_Maps.jpg

Map is roughly a 12 mile radius:

SmartSelect_20240115_120944_Firefox.jpg
 
Super vague ‘start production as early as this year’ when it’s just the fifteenth of January but okay.

Panasonic announces new and improved 2170 chemistry:


My free articles are gone, maybe someone else can get some more information out of it: