Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Blue horseshoe]

9 out of 13 posts are replies to my ignored folks on this page!

1) All:
Please stop feeding them!!

2) Mods, can't we get an option to:
A- hide replies to our Ignores
B- show ignores only for easier editing of our ignores?

3) There's a Contact link on the bottom of the page; please let them know there's a problem.

Nope they can't hide replies to ignore. Instead this nonsense is allowed and the spam is protected. You can ignore the people inundating this thread with posts you don't care for, but you are not allowed to only disagree with posts as that's been explicitly forbidden. So you cannot quickly signal disagreement. If you ask people to stop replying that's not allowed. And if you call them the T word that's also not allowed....

Just keep scrolling and join me in my hope that people will too tire of replying and we can return to some normalcy in discourse here.

 

[Spacep0d]

EXACTLY. So, there will be a new team overseeing future development of the Supercharger network in time. Likely in the not too distant future. Their goals will be more aligned with Mr. Musk's and they'll be a lot leaner and more efficient. I fail to see the cause for all the consternation by many here.

This is normal for Elon, and we saw how he gutted legacy Twitter (now X) and replaced the fat with an agile and dedicated skeleton crew. As others have mentioned, we don't know what Elon knows but he seems very averse to inefficiency in all areas of the companies he runs.

There's no way he's permanently wiping out nominal Supercharging support and the network is still there. He's trying to make it more efficient, probably with a new leader for that effort who's more in line with his thinking.

Things may be different now that Tesla is NACS and this may affect Tesla's former role as sole provider of Supercharging stalls that every EV will be able to use. Something else may be in the works.

As usual, Elon is being Elon, but that's what has gotten Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink, Neuralink, Tesla Insurance, Tesla Solar, Tesla Energy, Optimus, FSD, and others where they are today.

 

[UkNorthampton]

Mainly they didn’t get the early position they needed to survive this EV demand trough… as has been stated before and as we all know starting a car company from scratch historically has low chance of success.
Rivian I still have hopes for. Their products are good, they had done pretty hefty capitalization etc.
Polestar had the advantage of relationship with Volvo, but the initial products were uninspiring and lacked range. The upcoming things are more interesting.
Fisker was the one that always seemed like it was built on sand.
None of them are really set up to build things as well as Tesla is esp in the price ranges of 3 and y…,
And none are headed towards low cost volume produced vehicles.

These other companies don't have Elon's systems in place (including ruthless cost control, pivot whole company in an instant and plan for years ahead, creating every stepping stone if others don't).

Elon can turn his hand to anything that interests him.

 

[Max Plaid]

FYI. Fisker may be dead.

https://www.motor1.com/news/718614/fisker-ocean-factory-idled/

Who woulda thunk it?

 

[scaesare]

I hope Rivian somehow magically survives and thrives. I would like an R1S if they were to integrate tesla supercharging as seamless as it works with my Model Y.

I give them the best chance of the startups... they seem like they really tried to build a compelling and practical vehicle, and are actually getting them on the road... I see them reasonably often now. The trade-secrets thing with Tesla was bad... as otherwise they seemed like they were one of the "good guys" in the EV revolution.

Lucid feels like it just wants to one-up Tesla, and be a boutique maker... I don't give them much chance.

Fisker's problems over a decade ago were almost the death knell, and after the buyout and restructuring have never really seemed viable.

 

[scaesare]

Yes. And some know why.

And where they went... voluntarily I might add...

 

[mongo]

You have assumed that this 500 in the US was everyone with anything to do with Supercharging

No, I explicitly did not:

it seems clear it was near 100% of the (US?) team (there are still Supercharger things happening, so not 'everyone' everyone

Spoiler: This discussion is not useful to the group...

and only exists because you appeared to misunderstand the scope of the original post which was referring to supercharging:

I can't find any reasonable justification to decimate the team that is responsible for the most admired, most loved, key differentiator and most useful capability in Tesla by a mile, which is perhaps responsible for majority of their sales - Supercharging.

Gave it a "Love" for appropriate application of the word "decimate"

Not appropriate unless you are starting with data supporting a 5,000 person supercharger team.

To be pedantic, “decimate” literally means to reduce by 10%, so not really appropriate here.

Elon's layoffs, as announced, decimated the ranks of Tesla employees. Literally as defined.

Here you refer to "employees" meaning in general, not employees meaning the Supercharging team.

If you meant that subset specifically the entire time,

Unless you think that group had 5,000 people initially...

then I am the one who misunderstood and I apologize for my error.
I have no care to debate whether the supercharging layoffs were closer to 100% or 0% (where 90% and 10% are the same amount of error)

 

[SOULPEDL]

Bummer. I slept in and missed today's sale.
Maybe it will dip again?

 

[Knightshade]

Fisker's problems over a decade ago were almost the death knell, and after the buyout and restructuring have never really seemed viable.

You are conflating the prior company Fisker Automotive that was sold to a Chinese owner and renamed Karma Automotive... The current company selling the Ocean is Fisker Inc and is unrelated apart from having the same original founder and did not exist at all a decade ago...

Though I agree neither really ever had a decent business plan

 

[AudubonB]

9 out of 13 posts are replies to my ignored folks on this page!

1) All:
Please stop feeding them!!

2) Mods, can't we get an option to:
A- hide replies to our Ignores
B- show ignores only for easier editing of our ignores?

3) There's a Contact link on the bottom of the page; please let them know there's a problem.

I have very clearly stated my position on the Ignore function. Are you ignoring that, or ignorant of it?
I have zero sympathy for any who use that crutch.

 

[insaneoctane]

My wife and I agreed wholeheartedly that this comment encapsulates perfectly where the danger to intellect, to society and to humanity itself comes in.

It is one thing to let the latest development in labor - autonomous and animatronic robots - perform heretofore human functions, although there are perils as well as benefits to that.

It is something quite else entirely to cede the function of amassing, digesting and otherwise processing information to an artificial intelligence. Never let that happen to you nor to others.

While concerning, Isn't that similar to what most people do with "news" everyday? They let their preferred (yet biased) media outlet consume the facts and decide for them what is newsworthy and what the narrative of the facts are? Most people are too lazy to seek fact-based unbiased information from multiple sources for news as it's much more work than just consuming MSM. Unfortunately, people have proven they are lazy / too busy.

 

[advocate8]

These other companies don't have Elon's systems in place (including ruthless cost control, pivot whole company in an instant and plan for years ahead, creating every stepping stone if others don't).

Elon can turn his hand to anything that interests him.

It’s possible. It’s also possible those things you list have been excessively applied. Sometimes making them flaws Tesla has survived despite of, rather than being ingredients in the secret sauce.
That list also reads like rationalizations for recent debatable acts...

 

[sunwarriors]

Nope they can't hide replies to ignore. Instead this nonsense is allowed and the spam is protected. You can ignore the people inundating this thread with posts you don't care for, but you are not allowed to only disagree with posts as that's been explicitly forbidden. So you cannot quickly signal disagreement. If you ask people to stop replying that's not allowed. And if you call them the T word that's also not allowed....

Just keep scrolling and join me in my hope that people will too tire of replying and we can return to some normalcy in discourse here.

Or for long term/decades HOFDL folks, just no need to peruse this thread at all since nothing anyone says will ever change your mind right? It's a waste of your time reading/commenting. As a non-stock holder, it's clearly a waste of my time too, but I find both sides of the technology/Elon/management/TSLA argument interesting enough to waste it (not like the solar talk in CA has much changes anymore).

I think there are just as much bullish blanket statements from bulls than some of the criticism, but the problem with forums/society is shutting down the other side and just block/silence all of them. Even Elon claims to be a free speech absolutist and folks here want to silence, some heavy Tesla stock owners as well (who has posted valid concerns with their 1000+ shares)?

 

[Ocelot]

It is something quite else entirely to cede the function of amassing, digesting and otherwise processing information to an artificial intelligence. Never let that happen to you nor to others.

I fully comprehend you likely relegate FSD to the autonomous human labor category yet a strong argument can be made for it falling under the umbrella of your words. Any problems upstream can trickle down and create direct consequences downstream. Probably irrelevant anyhow as humans being humans of course are going to use it for all the aforementioned things.

This is normal for Elon, and we saw how he gutted legacy Twitter (now X) and replaced the fat with an agile and dedicated skeleton crew. As others have mentioned, we don't know what Elon knows but he seems very averse to inefficiency in all areas of the companies he runs. There's no way he's permanently wiping out nominal Supercharging support and the network is still there. He's trying to make it more efficient, probably with a new leader for that effort who's more in line with his thinking. Things may be different now that Tesla is NACS and this may affect Tesla's former role as sole provider of Supercharging stalls that every EV will be able to use. Something else may be in the works. As usual, Elon is being Elon, but that's what has gotten Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink, Neuralink, Tesla Insurance, Tesla Solar, Tesla Energy, Optimus, FSD, and others where they are today.

If the "fat" includes daily users and revenue, then yes? Users down nearly 25 per cent, and ad revenue down over 33 per cent.
Net advertising revenue generated by Twitter worldwide from 2019 to 2023(in billion U.S. dollars)

I get what you are saying, but as a shareholder in Tesla, I am fully cognizant that Elon is not omnipotent and can make bad calls, as well as execute good or necessary calls poorly. Cutting the supercharging teams is an action that is in the 'to be determined' category with respect to the evaluation of its outcome. I would surmise it will fall into the too drastic, over reaching, negative for Tesla and TSLA category, but time will tell.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Nope they can't hide replies to ignore. Instead this nonsense is allowed and the spam is protected. You can ignore the people inundating this thread with posts you don't care for, but you are not allowed to only disagree with posts as that's been explicitly forbidden. So you cannot quickly signal disagreement. If you ask people to stop replying that's not allowed. And if you call them the T word that's also not allowed....

Just keep scrolling and join me in my hope that people will too tire of replying and we can return to some normalcy in discourse here.

Thanks for posting. Ditto. It is why we lost a key player - as a matter of fact, not rumor.

I'm on the fence still. Good to know what's going on, then leave the toxicity and do something creative elsewhere. My ignore list doesn't work, not to mention the repetitiveness that others in the past have also experienced (understandibly so). What's left are many standing on their soapboxes looking for either confirmation or theraphy, over and over again, along with persistent bashing of Tesla and Elon that won't go away. Tic-tok.

Also, what's the T word... Traider?
Can I have another letter pls?

 

[sunwarriors]

These other companies don't have Elon's systems in place (including ruthless cost control, pivot whole company in an instant and plan for years ahead, creating every stepping stone if others don't).

Elon can turn his hand to anything that interests him.

People forget that Tesla was near the brink of bankruptcy as well in the past:

Tesla bankruptcy? It nearly happened amid Model 3 scale-up, Elon Musk reveals

Musk says the carmaker was about a month away from bankruptcy at some point between 2017 and 2019.

www.cnet.com

It took Tesla well over a decade (17 years per this Forbes article) to make profits. Starting a car company is hard, and a lot of these new EV upstarts are experiencing the same issues in a much much tougher environment. Fisker was probably doomed to fail.

Tesla Stock Breakdown: By The Numbers, How Does Tesla Make Money In 2022?

We all consider Tesla an electric vehicle maker, but this company has other lines of business - from tax credits to solar panels to crypto. We examine Tesla’s financials to see how the company actually generates revenue and profits. No hype.

www.forbes.com

We're all still waiting for X to be valued at over $44 billion.

 

[Unpilot]

I'm at least not visiting as much...and probably leaving...the ratio of noise is starting to resemble 4chan.

 

[sunwarriors]

I give them the best chance of the startups... they seem like they really tried to build a compelling and practical vehicle, and are actually getting them on the road... I see them reasonably often now. The trade-secrets thing with Tesla was bad... as otherwise they seemed like they were one of the "good guys" in the EV revolution.

Lucid feels like it just wants to one-up Tesla, and be a boutique maker... I don't give them much chance.

Fisker's problems over a decade ago were almost the death knell, and after the buyout and restructuring have never really seemed viable.

Lucid is 60% owned by the Saudi's. They can keep it afloat as long as they want to:

Lucid Motors raises another $1 billion from Saudi Arabia as it searches for luxury EV buyers | TechCrunch

Lucid Motors is raising another $1 billion from its biggest financial backer, Saudi Arabia, as it looks to blunt the high costs associated with building

techcrunch.com

They are big ($925 billion in assets):

Public Investment Fund - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[scaesare]

You are conflating the prior company Fisker Automotive that was sold to a Chinese owner and renamed Karma Automotive... The current company selling the Ocean is Fisker Inc and is unrelated apart from having the same original founder and did not exist at all a decade ago...

Though I agree neither really ever had a decent business plan

Oh... my bad. Now that you mention it I do remember that naming thing... thanks for the info...

But yeah, they still seem the least likely to succeed...

 

[SOULPEDL]

New theory. If a member responds at length to a Troll repeatedly and won't quit, are they also part of the Troll strategy - in disguise? A new type of FUD player acting out both sides on purpose? Ya...