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Watching this fleet of food delivery robots deliver hot food to students during finals week here at Northern Arizona University has given me a new appreciation for how far along we've come, and how close we are probably getting to FSD.

I know... driving real life cars and trucks with humans on board is an order of magnitude :))) more difficult, but let's face it; the future is arriving at an accelerated pace! How lucky are we to witness such things?

The robots, which use sophisticated machine learning, artificial intelligence and sensors to travel on sidewalks and navigate around obstacles, have already journeyed more than 150,000 miles. They navigate campus at 4 mph, look both ways before crossing a street and are built to keep the food they are transporting secure and at safe temperatures.

“Hello! Here is your delivery:” Starship robots roll onto NAU’s campus (VIDEO)



 
and that's only the start. they already partner with chrysler. just announced they gonna build those vans with expansive hats on top. now they change course, don't you think chrysler would take a pause?

They have also partnered with Jaguar to put their ugly hat on top of iPaces as well. So they are playing both sides of this...
 
Tesla surely has the FSD but nothing they're doing is earth-shattering or insurmountable. Others will also solve FSD... the only question the timing.

Google or Apple can design a chip... actually who's to say that Apple isn't secretly designing their own FSD chip right now?

And Google/Apple/Others can partner with a manufacturer to get cameras/sensors installed and their FSD chip/computer installed as well. Some people think this will take 5 to 10 years, but I look at it differently. If Google/Apple are motivated they can make it happen much, much quicker than that. Google (or Apple can announce a deal with Chrysler (or other company) that they're putting a google designed FSD system in one of their models, complete with FSD computer, cameras and sensors. Of course this is assuming that they've committed to a vision-focused FSD system, which I think it's possible that Google/Apple/etc already have teams working on.

IMO, The problem for Lidar FSD developer companies (e.g. Waymo, Apple, Zoox) who are not OEM's are four-fold:

1. Their testing and validation costs will be enormous because they won't have a fleet they can sell like Tesla. The recent Hamid Shoajee blog holds the same views that I do, if you take the total Tesla fleet and considered each owner a 'safety driver' the total cost of Tesla's fleet would be on the order of 50 billion in upfront costs.

2. Even if Waymo had a working FSD system today, the electric part of the equation is non-trivial, it accounts for a substantial fraction of the cost reduction for a robotaxi fleet. There aren't really any large-scale electric OEM's that Waymo/Apple could buy, although they could buy say Ford, Lucid, Rivian, etc., none of them are anywhere near scale yet. Waymo already contracted to buy something like 65k Jaguar i-Paces and that is a very small fleet relatively. To build a large electric robotaxi fleet means you also have to solve the cell-supply problem.

3. Even if they successfully put together electric robotaxis, their costs will be very high due to LIDAR, revenue share with electric OEM vehicle producers. For LIDAR, there doesn't seem to be a straightforward path to getting the costs down reasonably, and the roadmap for solid-state LIDAR as effective as the mechanical units being a few hundred dollars might be much further out than has been forecasted. This means that cost-per mile will essentially stay high.

4. Capital costs for bootstrapping a robotaxi fleet are high, while ride-share prices are likely to decrease over time. Let's say Waymo had a gasoline Robotaxi network. To buy all the vehicles at say 200k each and run them as taxis would produce a certain yield. This yield is almost certainly going to go down over time and depreciate all the vehicle values (i.e.. electric robotaxis will underprice gasoline robotaxis). If a lower cost-supplier enters the market and has winner-take all dynamics, this would be a huge amount of stranded capital. This means that OEM's have a natural economic advantage in being able to sell vehicles to consumers, who primarily own vehicles for their own use, and care less about capital depreciation due to competition. As long as vehicle owners can cover most of their own costs they will underprice other participants when putting their vehicles onto Tesla Network like marketplaces. Long-term robotaxi ride prices will be ridiculously cheap due to this factor. For OEM's that have something like Tesla Network, their margins will stay high since they are not supplying capital but taking revenue share. Waymo has to make a return on their capital if they own the fleet and this is an extremely risky proposition if low-cost producers like Tesla or any other OEM succeed with a Tesla Network like structure.
 
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Its mind boggling to me someone pays hedge fund to underperform S&P 500 over 50%.
 
Some people here would argue Elon doesn't have a credibility problem. Go figure.

The guy has a company regularly flying cargo to the space station. He gets things done, but he appears to lack timing. I mean if next year he is running robotaxi’s in 3 major cities that would be amazing. But people would say he’s failing because he promised a million on the road.
 
IMO, The problem for Lidar FSD developer companies (e.g. Waymo, Apple, Zoox) who are not OEM's are four-fold:

I think it is one-fold.

1. They got no data.

The amount of driving they are doing is nothing in the machine learning world.

TSLA has the gobs of data needed from their fleet.

It is a machine learning game changer, that Lidar guys and other simply don't have.
 
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You're incorrect. It's actually an attempt to build in a cushion that accounts for the lunacy of everyone else on the road, including the drunk drivers, the road ragers, the unlicensed drivers, the deer and the bison, the drunk pedestrians, the sloppy construction crews, the unleashed dogs, the truck driver with product spilling off the back of his truck, etc.


Those aren't going away. Though the freeway does make some of them *much* less frequent, whch is why city streets and rural roads are so much harder.


The principle I picked up from my defensive driving courses was "Assume everyone else is a maniac and will do the stupidest, most dangerous possible thing". That's the general principle.
Whatever you assume, you still only have one camera and can't keep track of what's happening on all sides of your car simultaneously. A computer can.

Just take the topic from today Tesla Model 3 saved me : teslamotors

Not many believe that the driver could have done the maneuver safely(he doesn't remember) given the assumed state of shock after the accident, which is probably correct for 99% of such cases.

If things like that are part of AP/FSD in the future, there's no way an average driver can match that given a split second for decision making.

When I drive on AP, the 3 always keeps a full car length from the car stopped in front of me. That's consistency & safety for the car in front of me that I probably wouldn't have done myself.

Like in the video above, if this was me driving and I'm boxed in, the car in front of me would be part of the wreck. But with AP keeping the distance, it's possible that my car wouldn't jump as far ahead to cause damage to the car in front.

Now miltiply that by a number of accidents in which cars get rear ended. I think that's substantial savings for an insurance company from a pretty simple precaution = keeping the distance. They don't need to prevent all accidents to do better, preventing most of them by taking some precautions and having advantage of instantaneous reaction time and a thought process not affected by shock seems like a good lead on human drivers on average.
 
For those who really think the Model 3 will become an appreciating asset, I will sell you an option contract to buy my Model 3 which has the FSD option.

I'll sell you the option contract for $3000 right now. It will give you the option to buy my Model 3 in 2 years for $56k (which was my purchase price).

For those who believe in the appreciating asset thesis, please flood my PM inbox with offers. I'll be waiting.
 
Damn. Do y'all ever get the feeling it is us against the world? So much negativity. I sometimes feel like a country preacher spreading the word of Tesla to everyone I meet. And the response is like a scripted reply, "Yea, but have you seen all the stuff about Tesla in the news?".

And every day it's more negativity from analysts and writers.

Can we win?
 
Damn. Do y'all ever get the feeling it is us against the world? So much negativity. I sometimes feel like a country preacher spreading the word of Tesla to everyone I meet. And the response is like a scripted reply, "Yea, but have you seen all the stuff about Tesla in the news?".

And every day it's more negativity from analysts and writers.

Can we win?
They can slow it down but not stop it. This is a great product, great products speak for themselves over time.
 
For those who really think the Model 3 will become an appreciating asset, I will sell you an option contract to buy my Model 3 which has the FSD option.

I'll sell you the option contract for $3000 right now. It will give you the option to buy my Model 3 in 2 years for $56k (which was my purchase price).

For those who believe in the appreciating asset thesis, please flood my PM inbox with offers. I'll be waiting.
I have a better idea. Book Model Y with FSD.
 
I mean if next year he is running robotaxi’s in 3 major cities that would be amazing. But people would say he’s failing because he promised a million on the road.
OT

And that's precisely what will happen IMO. People keep fretting that FSD won't be ready for years without realizing the jobs these robotaxis can ease into.

It's ride hailing, we know the route before the job is confirmed. A handful of cities will allow robotaxis in certain grids where Tesla has a massive and constantly updating 3D map of every little crevice. It'll be a 30mph and lower thing at first and won't tax the M3 brain in the slightest.

Some will then flip out that there aren't a million functioning everywhere. I'm excited.
 
Watching this fleet of food delivery robots deliver hot food to students during finals week here at Northern Arizona University has given me a new appreciation for how far along we've come, and how close we are probably getting to FSD.

I know... driving real life cars and trucks with humans on board is an order of magnitude :))) more difficult, but let's face it; the future is arriving at an accelerated pace! How lucky are we to witness such things?

The robots, which use sophisticated machine learning, artificial intelligence and sensors to travel on sidewalks and navigate around obstacles, have already journeyed more than 150,000 miles. They navigate campus at 4 mph, look both ways before crossing a street and are built to keep the food they are transporting secure and at safe temperatures.

“Hello! Here is your delivery:” Starship robots roll onto NAU’s campus (VIDEO)



Starship Technolgies is Estonian company, they also deliver groceries in Estonia and in London. They are not FSD, they are hard coded AFAIK and when in trouble they ask for assistance from remote control center in the office. BTW they use cameras and ultrasonic sensors, no lidars. These robots are really cool.