Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Artful Dodger]

Whoa whoa. Slow down oddly aggressive moderator. I’m full on Tesla and Elon fan boy to the max. However, the fact that the Ring isn’t aware of any time scheduled is an issue. I’ve been to the Ring many many times. I know how this works. There are only certain days for these things and they get scheduled quickly. Hopefully the spokesperson was just stupid but I’m just saying it doesn’t look good. I’d be very happy to be proven wrong this week.

Renting the Nürburgring for exclusive track days/record attempts costs over 70K Euro. Tesla doesn't need to spend that kind of money because they don't need to set an officially timed record. This is going to Youtube!

Tesla simply can participate in one of the daily 1-hr 'Manufacturers sessions' before/after Touristenfahrten ('public driving' sessions). I expect this to be a campaign by Tesla, not a 1-time event, although now with Nico Rosberg onboard as a driver for next week, this is shaping up to be a fun day.

But even if the Model S/Raven does come up shy in 2019, does anyone seriously doubt what they can achieve if they set their minds to it? By 2020? Buy 2025?

Cheers!

 

[Artful Dodger]

Semi does not need the SpaceX package.

You misread my intent. Semi WILL need onboard air compressors (not rockets), and possibly a COPV though likely at a much lower pressure.

This work has already been done for Semi. Tesla could choose to leverage that previous engineering for the SpaceX-package Roadster, rather than reinvent the (compressor) wheel. But again, I suggest a small compressor will be needed near the COPV to pressurize it while the car is in the pits.

Cheers!

 

[scaesare]

As a reminder, here are the the Track Mode tricks that the Model 3 could teach the Model S in a firmware update for it's day at The Ring:

How Track Mode Works

 

[AudubonB]

For the semi?

Look here now. You’re either a full walrus or you’re not a walrus at all.

Just ask Paul.

 

[AudubonB]

The new Porsche EV wanted to be called the Model S, but that name was already Taycan.

MOD: Just so the rest of you know, that groaner’s poster has already been Taycan out to behind the woodshed.

 

[AudubonB]

Ring enthusiasts: What does one do (let’s assume that “one” is Tesla) if your slot at the track coincides with weather like that shown in the pic of the California-plated car heading Ring-wards?

 

[FreqFlyer]

Ring enthusiasts: What does one do (let’s assume that “one” is Tesla) if your slot at the track coincides with weather like that shown in the pic of the California-plated car heading Ring-wards?

Then one is screwed! Ring times are not an exact science as there are many variables that will effect them. Weather, track temps, and other traffic if one did not reserve the track will effect one’s Ring time.

 

[KSilver2000]

Regen is pure software up to the hardware limits of the drive units and pack. So there is likely already buffer there and the present limits are set at a level to allow driving by average people with the regen on accelerator setup. So they could potentially have both accelerator and brake pedal based regen.

Taycan does have higher regen tied to the brake pedal and more impressive* brake hardware.

*I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes outside of a track. Less heat per brake pad area and higher mechanical advantage.

The massive brake hardware makes almost no difference in daily driving on the streets. Only advantage is on autox and race tracks (or repeated testing of full stops).

If they’ve had to ship a special Model S from the US, then it has to have major hardware upgrades on the car. It can’t just be small things like better tires/wheels or software upgrade like track mode, or else they would just use a German spec car....

This is turning into an epic showdown

The more people dubious that a basically stock Model S could beat the Taycan that I run into (over and over and over), the more I realize how devastating of a blow this is going to be not just to the Taycan, but to the very concept that mainstream automakers can compete with Tesla at all. Because Taycan is a $150-250k car built at great expense specifically to perform well on tracks like Nürburgring, by one of the biggest names in motorsports. If what people (wrongly) perceive as a nearly-decade-old car (the Model S) at half the price beats this... it's going to be devastating to not just the Taycan specifically, but the very notion of Tesla killers in general.

I think some people are going to be in such disbelief that a Model S could win that they'll assert conspiracy theories.

That's definitely a US vehicle with that CA HOV sticker.

More specifically, the car in the picture is a 2017 build. But, are you people certain this is the car to go on the ring?
Available records show it to be a 2017 build 70D registered in 2018 (thus the red CA HOV decal).

 

[FreqFlyer]

to go on the ring?
Available records show it to be a 2017 build 70D registered in 2018 (thus the red CA HOV decal).

Wow, nice research

 

[Electroman]

Oh boy this is too good. Yet another parody on 'Fallen', this time on Taycan

 

[StealthP3D]

One thing not mentioned as much about racing on the ring is braking performance. Although, the ring doesn't punish brakes as much as some other tracks, they are still important.

Track mode can boost regen on all wheels, reducing the load on the brakes drastically. It also tunes the regen and regular braking to assist with cornering (turn-in and corner exit). I think the current Performance Model S can beat the Taycan with simple software upgrades. It's lighter, has a 2" longer wheelbase while the body is the same length, has lower rolling resistance and more power. I'm going to enjoy watching this unfold.

 

[riverFox]

Oh boy this is too good. Yet another parody on 'Fallen', this time on Taycan

Agreed. It's absolutely hilarious

 

[LN1_Casey]

More specifically, the car in the picture is a 2017 build. But, are you people certain this is the car to go on the ring?
Available records show it to be a 2017 build 70D registered in 2018 (thus the red CA HOV decal).

I had the same thought. It could be a private owner who recently moved to Germany, I think there is an U.S. Army base out there. Us military move our cars all the time.

I don't think any car that Tesla will use for the trying to get the record would have the HOV sticker. That really is for day-to-day traffic cars, not something meant to beat 7:45 on the track.

 

[KSilver2000]

Track mode can boost regen on all wheels, reducing the load on the brakes drastically. It also tunes the regen and regular braking to assist with cornering (turn-in and corner exit). I think the current Performance Model S can beat the Taycan with simple software upgrades. It's lighter, has a 2" longer wheelbase while the body is the same length, has lower rolling resistance and more power. I'm going to enjoy watching this unfold.

When did Perf model S get Track mode?

 

[Cobbler]

But if I understand (read) correctly it will be a pouch cell. So goodbye to the cylindrical cell?

Imagine a fork when eating spaghetti and you roll your pasta using the handle or the other end.

With cylindrical: the film (layers of electrode, separator, anode) is winded over a single axis, creating a nice cilinder.

With pouch: the film is winded over at least 2 fingers, forming a flat shape.

Should be easy to use this chemistry on cylindrical cells

*Disclaimer: I'm not a battery expert.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

Whoa whoa. Slow down oddly aggressive moderator. I’m full on Tesla and Elon fan boy to the max. However, the fact that the Ring isn’t aware of any time scheduled is an issue. I’ve been to the Ring many many times. I know how this works. There are only certain days for these things and they get scheduled quickly. Hopefully the spokesperson was just stupid but I’m just saying it doesn’t look good. I’d be very happy to be proven wrong this week.

What does being a moderator have to do with this? Moderators are allowed to have an opinion and express that opinion, even if you consider that opinion ‘oddly agressive’ (it wasn’t meant as such*). As long as I don’t give you a warning or delete a post based on my opinion, being a moderator should not be relevant.

I have no doubt you’re a fan of Tesla and Elon, but I believe it should still be possible to call you out on an unproven and I believe unjust accusation against Elon. There are plenty of alternatives to reserving a spot on the ring. If all spots for this year are already booked, as the spokesman said, it was not an oversight by Elon to not have a reserved spot but an impossibility. However, there still are several other options (as others pointed out):

• To have a booking under an alias.
• To use/buy the spot of someone else.
• To use the manufacturers’ hour before and after public opening hours, when the ring is relatively quiet.

The last option seems most likely to me.

* As a non-native speaker it is not always easy to find a subtle tone.

 

[Buckminster]

The thing that made the Taycan distinctive was the air duct below the headlights. Unless the body is in white, you don't see it. Another fail.

 

[SwTslaGrl]

Williams latest uses both pouch and cylindrical cells in the same pack

"The Williams design uses two different types of cell chemistry, arranged in two separate blocks within the module. Widely used Samsung 21700 30T cylindrical cells provide good energy density and more specialized high-performance pouch cells from A123 systems provide the high power."
Williams reveals lighter yet longer-range EV battery module

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

I had the same thought. It could be a private owner who recently moved to Germany, I think there is an U.S. Army base out there. Us military move our cars all the time.

I don't think any car that Tesla will use for the trying to get the record would have the HOV sticker. That really is for day-to-day traffic cars, not something meant to beat 7:45 on the track.

To thicken the plot even more: the guy who spotted the Model S on the trailer said it had Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 R race tires. Not what you would expect on a 70D, or on a car used for local driving around Ramstein AFB.

 

[KSilver2000]

More specifically, the car in the picture is a 2017 build. But, are you people certain this is the car to go on the ring?
Available records show it to be a 2017 build 70D registered in 2018 (thus the red CA HOV decal).

Edit: 75D, not 70D. Not sure why I wrote 70D. And, could have been registered in late 2017 but not filed for HOV decal until 2018.