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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
EVNow
Well-Known Member
As Tesla expands with Y & Pickup - individual smaller countries will start to impact less & less. Also, we'll naturally see other countries start offering incentives and take up the slack. For eg., if there is a change of guard at the WH in '20, we can expect new incentives enacted in the US. That would be a huge boost.
... and a €50,000 BMW 3 would cost you ~€74750. Either way, the EVs retain a massive cost advantage. The "cliff" may move around some buyers to quarters later in the year, but it shouldn't drive them back to ICEs.
Fact Checking
Well-Known Member
You are mocking the concerns about Plainsite's reliability, but I'd like to point out the incident that happened in the recent Walmart vs. Tesla litigation: Plainsite posted "redacted" documents, which were not redacted by the court, but were selective redactions that blacked out all of Tesla's objections and defenses to Walmart's accusations.
It's unclear to me who created those "redactions", but apparently anyone can submit documents to Plainsite and the founder of the site is apparently also a TSLAQ nutcase - and I suspect either the plaintiffs in that lawsuit of helpful TSLAQ people performed those selective redactions. News services like Bloomberg went ahead and took those distorted claims at face value, and reporting on them in such a fashion.
This created a very misleading narrative about the Walmart lawsuit.
Likewise, these documents in the "Investors" (not really brought by geniuine Tesla investors but by ambulance chasing lawyers) too haven't posted actual deposition transcripts AFAIK, only the characterization of plaintiffs of what was said in depositions - which is not the same at all.
For example if a legal filing by the plaintiffs has the words "Musk admitted during deposition that ...", this has very little legal weight without the full deposition transcript, their characterization might or might not be true - U.S. lawyers are allowed to ... bend the truth to the maximum extent to favor their clients, and then some more, and legal filings generally cannot be libel so basically everything goes.
You know all this I suppose, but wanted to clear this up as a context for everyone else here.
This is for cars leased by the business, where employee pays the tax and business pays the lease. If I undestand it correctly.
So for expected price you need to look at 5-year leasing cost. But I'm not dutch.. someone will know better.
Also the amount of tax you pay depends on your income tax level.
JusRelax
Active Member
My wife has relatives living in Taiwan and considering an EV. They recently visited us here in the states and one of them told me that charging is definitely the issue in Taiwan.
On another note, I believe that Taiwan would be a great location to test Tesla's '2-minute battery replacement' that they revealed but never released:
In Taiwan, scooters are extremely popular and all the more recent scooters have the same form factor batteries that are easily replaceable. There are battery replacement centers all over the place where the owner is easily able to replace their battery for free; the model is designed so that the scooter owners don't have to worry about ever charging the batteries - whenever their battery ends up with a low charge, they just drop into one of these battery replacement centers and pick up a fully-charged battery for free. The model is a subscription model where, instead of purchasing the scooters, the scooters are leased with free unlimited battery replacements for the length of the lease. This works well in Taiwan for several reasons:
1. The government heavily subsidizes and supports the effort
2. Taiwan is relatively small so it wasn't that difficult to setup battery replacement centers in enough places to make it convenient to replace the batteries
3. The batteries in scooters are obviously much smaller/lighter than in cars, so the owners are able to easily replace them themselves without any expensive proprietary tools
There are obvious difficulties that Tesla would need to resolve if they were to attempt to do this, but if Tesla were to attempt to do this anywhere, Taiwan would be the ideal testing grounds because a primary portion of Taiwan's population is already familiar with the process of replacing batteries when more miles is needed as opposed to charging batteries themselves.
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No these are free cars, provided by employers (over half of all new cars in The Netherlands). And because they are free, they are considered income, which is taxable.
It also applies to business owners, but most people are employees getting a car for free from their employer (usually through a leasing company).
Only private buyers have to pay the sticker price. The advantages they have are a road tax exemption and lower driving costs. And ofcourse the chance to drive one of the coolest and best cars on earth. There is some talk about a subsidy for private buyers, but so far it didn’t get included in the government stimilus.
As I understand it, you’re basing your conclusions on one side of the court case’s arguments. Wouldn’t that be premature, until you hear the other side?
E.g. when I first heard Walmart’s side, I was convinced Tesla (Solar City) was in the wrong, but after hearing Tesla’s side, the picture changed completely!
To decide in favor of Germany is IMO mainly because of experienced labor in the auto industry, logistics as well as to change the perception its just an imported US car with bad quality and low sales (sorry, a US car is still a negative in Germany associated with low quality, high consumption a.o.).
Having a few thousand Germans working in a GF that is located in Germany will make a real difference how people perceive and look at a Tesla vehicle.
Still, I will not rule out that the decision goes to another country simply because other factors like salary level, unions, regulations, politics and other issues should not be overlooked.
The documents you are referring to were, in fact, redacted by parties, and posted in redacted form to the official court docket. The majority of the exhibits attached to the complaint were filed under seal, are still under seal (at Tesla's request it appears), and Tesla has petitioned the court for more time to keep the documents sealed as of September 24, 2019.
Quote of the day, from the comment section of Jalopnik:
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“...if I hammered the throttle, there was a tiny bit of hesitation before the electric thrusters shot the Taycan down the street.”
I think that’s called Turbo Lag.
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“...if I hammered the throttle, there was a tiny bit of hesitation before the electric thrusters shot the Taycan down the street.”
I think that’s called Turbo Lag.
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What you said is pretty much spot on, GoGoRo is leading the charge on scooter battery swap. Unfortunately, Model 3 is not designed to swap battery like Model S.
Cash flows are analyst estimates. Same analysts who have lowered their profit expectations every few weeks for the last few years. Their estimates of cash flow require hitting metrics that have been missed like "500,000 a year by 2018", "Million a year by 2020" and other unlikely metrics. I don't think enterprise value can be calculated at this time without building a story first to base it on. The market is only able to judge about 1-qtr ahead right now on sales. If recession occurs and market conditions overall push stocks down, wealth effect (like in 2015) will have an impact on EV and general car sales worldwide.
JusRelax
Active Member
Based off of Electrek and Fred Lambert, 10 more V3 supercharger locations have been confirmed:
• Clearwater, FL
• Davidson, SK
• Dryden, ON, Canada
• Lynchburg, VA
• Madison, CT (one Northbound and one Southbound)
• Meriden, CT
• Santa Rosa, CA
• Sault Ste Marie, ON, Canada
• Stockton, CA
• Vienna, VA
• Clearwater, FL
• Davidson, SK
• Dryden, ON, Canada
• Lynchburg, VA
• Madison, CT (one Northbound and one Southbound)
• Meriden, CT
• Santa Rosa, CA
• Sault Ste Marie, ON, Canada
• Stockton, CA
• Vienna, VA
I'm confused as to why there isn't one in/near Seattle WA or Bellevue WA
You can see further evidence of this on the New York State docket for Case No. 654765/2019, which specifically points out that the complaint was initially sealed and redacted (and "corrected") by the parties to the case, not by PlainSite.
If you have issues with the redactions and sealed designations, you can take them up with Elon Musk.
If you have issues with the redactions and sealed designations, you can take them up with Elon Musk.
Looks like Fred is just trolling through supercharge.info. A large portion of the new stations there are of unknown/unconfirmed power. For example, only two of the "Canadian Electric Superhighway" stations have power numbers, and they're both 250; it's probable that the whole network is planned to be 250kW.
Pretty hilarious to see despite Nio's 25% plunge, that on a per dollar of revenue basis, Wall St still values Nio more than Tesla. Tesla's likely revenue for Q3 of 6.5 billion+ is 30x more than what Nio just reported of 218 million.....yet Tesla doesn't trade at the equivalent of a 64 billion market cap.
I only use revenue because well.....that's the most favorable comparison for Nio's sake lol. If you look at FCF, margins, sales growth, etc...the comparison is considerably worse.
Gotta love that wall st logic
I only use revenue because well.....that's the most favorable comparison for Nio's sake lol. If you look at FCF, margins, sales growth, etc...the comparison is considerably worse.
Gotta love that wall st logic
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
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