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V2G on Model 3 debunked

Important contribution by @Ingineer on the Model 3 on-board charger vs. V2G:

Ingineerix | Youtube

"In this short video I review the Model 3 PCS (Power Conversion System) and it's architecture. Lately there has been a lot of news that claimed that Tesla had quietly added V2G (Vehicle to Grid) functionality to Model 3 (and possibly Y). This is based on an Engineer's findings who did a Teardown on the PCS in 2018. Well here I have a PCS also out of a 2018 Model 3. I've also looked at a lot of others, including the stripped down model used on the Standard Range Model 3. So far none of them use synchronous rectification, which would be needed if the unit were capable of reverse operation.

"Also, I regularly study Tesla's software releases, and it would be obvious by looking at the code if they were adding such a capability.

"Now this doesn't mean Tesla isn't going to do this, but as of now, none of the Model 3 PCS units I've looked at have this capability.

"The Main microcontroller is a dual-core TI TMS320F28377D. It has 24 hardware PWM channels. I don't think this is enough for a full V2G-capabile synchronous rectification stage anyway, so if they wanted to add it, it's much more involved.

"These novel inverted DPAK 7 pin power semis are all custom marked. In the PFC stages we have Q1003, Q1004, Q2003, Q2004, Q3001, and Q3002 marked THY30. Also in PFC: Q1005, Q1006, Q2005, Q2006, Q3005, and Q3006 marked SCM65. In the chopper stages: Q1007, Q1008, Q1009, Q1010, Q2007, Q2008, Q2009, Q2010, Q3007, Q3008, Q3009, and Q3010, all marked SiM99 which I think are SiCFETs. Finally, in the output stage we have full-wave bridges formed by D1003-D1006, D2003-D2006, and D3003-D3006, all of which are marked SiD600 which I think are Silicon Carbide Diodes.

"I can't locate ANY of these parts, or even this package anywhere. So I think they are custom for Tesla. If anyone knows, please let me know!

"If you have any other questions, please leave them below. I'm happy to answer them!"​

If you're not familiar with his previous contributions to analyzing Model 3 power electronics, please visit his Youtube channel (linked at top, above)

Even that "Fred's" paper is from August 2018. And he also said "if these were transistors instead of diodes, it could work".

It would be nice if people did not pretend Model 3 from 2017 to be the same as Model 3 from 2020

@Ingineer already responded to that point in the comments section of his Youtube video:

"If they had, I'd see it in the code. I just looked at the code for 2020.16 today."

Cheers!
 
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Not really debunked yet:

Even that "Fred's" paper is from August 2018. And he also said "if these were transistors instead of diodes, it could work".
It would be nice if people did not pretend Model 3 from 2017 to be the same as Model 3 from 2020 ...

He said in the comments that he can tell they haven't changed the design because the software hasn't changed even for newer cars.
 
Important contribution by @Ingineer on the Model 3 on-board charger vs. V2G:

Ingineerix | Youtube

"In this short video I review the Model 3 PCS (Power Conversion System) and it's architecture. Lately there has been a lot of news that claimed that Tesla had quietly added V2G (Vehicle to Grid) functionality to Model 3 (and possibly Y). This is based on an Engineer's findings who did a Teardown on the PCS in 2018. Well here I have a PCS also out of a 2018 Model 3. I've also looked at a lot of others, including the stripped down model used on the Standard Range Model 3. So far none of them use synchronous rectification, which would be needed if the unit were capable of reverse operation.

"Also, I regularly study Tesla's software releases, and it would be obvious by looking at the code if they were adding such a capability.

"Now this doesn't mean Tesla isn't going to do this, but as of now, none of the Model 3 PCS units I've looked at have this capability.

"The Main microcontroller is a dual-core TI TMS320F28377D. It has 24 hardware PWM channels. I don't think this is enough for a full V2G-capabile synchronous rectification stage anyway, so if they wanted to add it, it's much more involved.

"These novel inverted DPAK 7 pin power semis are all custom marked. In the PFC stages we have Q1003, Q1004, Q2003, Q2004, Q3001, and Q3002 marked THY30. Also in PFC: Q1005, Q1006, Q2005, Q2006, Q3005, and Q3006 marked SCM65. In the chopper stages: Q1007, Q1008, Q1009, Q1010, Q2007, Q2008, Q2009, Q2010, Q3007, Q3008, Q3009, and Q3010, all marked SiM99 which I think are SiCFETs. Finally, in the output stage we have full-wave bridges formed by D1003-D1006, D2003-D2006, and D3003-D3006, all of which are marked SiD600 which I think are Silicon Carbide Diodes.

"I can't locate ANY of these parts, or even this package anywhere. So I think they are custom for Tesla. If anyone knows, please let me know!

"If you have any other questions, please leave them below. I'm happy to answer them!"​

If you're not familiar with his previous contributions to analyzing Model 3 power electronics, please visit his Youtube channel (linked at top, above)



@Ingineer already responded to that point in the comments section of his Youtube video:

"If they had, I'd see it in the code. I just looked at the code for 2020.16 today."

Cheers!

Even if it does allow Bi-directional charging, it might just be for a Telsa providing an electron top up for another car in an emergency.

For V2G older cars might need to swap the battery to a Million mile battery pack, if they are swapping the pack, they may was well swap the board. But I don't think that makes financial sense, that is even before we consider home wiring upgrades...

But allowing bi-directional now means standard parts with future V2G, that makes sense, there is no strong argument for multiple versions versions of the board.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Artful Dodger
Even if it does allow Bi-directional charging, it might just be for a Telsa providing an electron top up for another car in an emergency.
Agreed. This also sounds like the functionality that Tesla confirmed via email sent to Sandy Munro. I think it'd be very useful, and also makes their EVs a standalone source of AC power. This is certainly planned for Cybertruck. V2G is extra.
 
My concern is not that others will have great battery tech, but that Tesla is perceived as a "me too" when finally announcing their million mile battery tech.

The longer they postpone Battery Day, the less newsworthy the announcement. From a PR perspective, this is not what you want. The media will look at the announcement and compare to what has already been announced by others like SVolt and GM.

Come on Tesla! Get it out already!
I care more about Tesla getting their great new things into production over their holding a PR event.
 
Seems like speculation to me. He is claiming a 7-pin unknown device is a diode just because the part id starts with a D instead of a Q.
Look at the PCB. Only 2 connections (pins are bundled together for extra current carrying). There would have to be a gate pin, plus associated gate driver circuitry. Also, FETs/IGBTs don't conduct when you put a meter across them. These do!
 
true, but Austin is on the periphery of tornadic activity.

tornado_probability.gif
 
In the UK it is not possible to order a model Y at present. Is this something recent in Belgium or has it been possible for months?
It’s been possible since the US opening of preorders. I preordered one on day 1, but have cancelled it some time ago. May go for a new Model S (or Cybertruck if I can get approval from my wife).
 
It’s been possible since the US opening of preorders. I preordered one on day 1, but have cancelled it some time ago. May go for a new Model S (or Cybertruck if I can get approval from my wife).

Yeah, I have CT still on order, but will need to move house to make it happen. That being said, I'll save $200k over buying a Roadster II, which would go a long way to funding such a move :confused: