Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[SpeedGoat]

You might want to read this article. Car and driver tested the car right along side a Model S Long Range Plus with 402 EPA rated range. When the Model S went into limp mode at 357 miles, the Air still had 20% capacity left. No, that's not over 500, but it is in the neighborhood of 460 miles at highway speed. That is still enough for most people's drive in a single day.

Lucid Air EV Has a Projected 517 Miles of Range

That is an impressive achievement and it shows where the state of the art is going. As electric vehicles start consistently getting over 400 miles or real world range the advantage of the supercharger network will diminish somewhat, but people will always need a way to charge and I can't imagine someone paying that kind of cash in 2021 not to be able to drive anywhere in the country without thinking about it.

The other issue worth noting is that Lucid is a brand new company. How long will it take them to ramp production to a meaningful level? We have all just had a ringside seat of what that looks like...

Finally, the obvious, by 2021 Tesla will have longer ranged vehicles available.

Quick question for the group, has anyone put together a comprehensive timeline of progress on the Model S? What I am looking for is a chart that shows the dates of availability for each new longest range variant. Bonus points if it includes maximum supercharge rate.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Tesla isn’t untouchable in all aspects. I don’t doubt that someone can engineer similar efficiency. Or a similar driver-assist/autonomous system. Or a similar OTA software setup. The problem is that it is highly unlikely someone can match Tesla with the total package AND sell it for anything close to Tesla.

Pretty much this. A company can always out spec Tesla or beat them on pricing by badly compromising specs/quality. But anyone promising the combination should be questioned thoroughly until the product is out on the road.

 

[Sudre]

You might want to read this article. Car and driver tested the car right along side a Model S Long Range Plus with 402 EPA rated range. When the Model S went into limp mode at 357 miles, the Air still had 20% capacity left. No, that's not over 500, but it is in the neighborhood of 460 miles at highway speed. That is still enough for most people's drive in a single day.

Lucid Air EV Has a Projected 517 Miles of Range

I am all for the competition but until it sits in my driveway I have absolutely no interest in their bragging and bull. I was ready for an Etron or Ipace then they came out with the miserably overpriced things. I hope Lucid is the real thing.

 

[woodisgood]

Tesla isn’t untouchable in all aspects. I don’t doubt that someone can engineer similar efficiency. Or a similar driver-assist/autonomous system. Or a similar OTA software setup. The problem is that it is highly unlikely someone can match Tesla with the total package AND sell it for anything close to Tesla.

And oh, we forgot about the fact that it will remain only Tesla that will offer a complementing home energy ecosystem and a complementing insurance product.

 

[SoGA Fan Club]

The fact that it has been prove/shown that a Raven S gets over 400 miles on a highway trip from SF to LA and they only managed 357 miles should tell you something about this comparison.

Did you not get anything from the many early prototypes of the Taycan where Porsche led on that the Taycan would get well over 300 miles and indicated it by the "available battery range" on the screen during test drives? Dude come on, it's very obvious Porsche was lying and was purposely inflating numbers through the software. And yet you're willing to take Lucid at their word? OK

I'm not saying Lucid is a scam, but everyone right now is trying to show how they could have any potential tag line over Tesla. Don't be surprised when they walk down/back these specs or the price goes higher as it gets closer to production

Man, you didn't read the article did you? This is NOT Lucid stating their numbers - this is Car and Driver AND an independent testing company simulating the exact EPA test.

Also, can you PLEASE post a source for these things you post? Like "The fact that it has been prove/shown that a Raven S gets over 400 miles on a highway trip from SF to LA". I just like to confirm what I read on the internet - not sure if you know this or not, but people can post anything. It's best to confirm before believing.

 

[joh01652]

Good luck competing against Plaid S.

And good luck competing against the Roadster. If MSM is so intent on comparing vaporware to the Model S, they should at least compare it to the Roadster which starts at around the same price as the Lucid and Taycant.

I can't wait for the Roadster, it'll absolutely smash everything else. And with the SpaceX package, OMG...

 

[Lessmog]

And good luck competing against the Roadster. If MSM is so intent on comparing vaporware to the Model S, they should at least compare it to the Roadster which starts at around the same price as the Lucid and Taycant.

I can't wait for the Roadster, it'll absolutely smash everything else. And with the SpaceX package, OMG...

Did someone say something about a hardcore smackdown? Feels like ages ago.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

Man, you didn't read the article did you? This is NOT Lucid stating their numbers - this is Car and Driver AND an independent testing company simulating the exact EPA test.

Also, can you PLEASE post a source for these things you post? Like "The fact that it has been prove/shown that a Raven S gets over 400 miles on a highway trip from SF to LA". I just like to confirm what I read on the internet - not sure if you know this or not, but people can post anything. It's best to confirm before believing.

All...please read the size of the battery in the Lucid before we hail it as more range than the Raven S...as i stated before, it was a 127kwh battery pack installed in the Lucid AIR vs the 100kwh battery in the Raven S.

 

[Tes La Ferrari]

I'm intrigued by the idea that they can get 500 miles with a less than 130 kwh pack. It means the Air is at least as efficient as the S. Does the S already have the energy saving techs from the Y?

Good question.

I wonder if the updated S will have the Y heat pump (but not at the expense of Bioweapon defence mode) too ?

 

[Sudre]

This is a rather boring week. Options aren't even exciting. Currently I call for just above $1400 close Friday but with as slow as all this is moving THEY can close the max pain gap easy peasy.

Current open interest for today. Not much in calls below 1400 which means so far this week no real reason to push it down on purpose.

Volume is also slow and boring. It's just following the SP around with some folks buying lotto tickets, straddles and strangles. Let hope for some action tomorrow and not in the limbo dance world.

 

[SoGA Fan Club]

The biggest reason to increase range IMHO, is so that we can increase travel speed.

True, but if you have to stop and charge to make your destination at least one more time, you are far better off to slow down and avoid the stop (if possible). The time it takes to replenish the mileage lost from driving higher speeds far exceeds the time saved driving fast. The only time I drive fast is when I know I'm on my last leg (or have to make a long stop regardless). It's very hard for me to convince myself to do this, but it proves itself to be true every time. And obviously the situation changes depending on the trip. But, unless I had 500 or 600 miles of true range, slowing down usually gets me to my destination quicker than driving fast.

 

[MP3Mike]

Man, you didn't read the article did you? This is NOT Lucid stating their numbers - this is Car and Driver AND an independent testing company simulating the exact EPA test.

Did you read the article or the BI article? They weren't allowed to drive the car they had to sit in the back, a Lucid engineer drove it, and they had to add many 50 pound lead weights to bring the car up to the expected production weight because the car was still missing pretty much the entire interior. (It only had basic seats.)

So not even a production intent vehicle.

 

[SoGA Fan Club]

Did you read the BI article? They weren't allowed to drive the car they had to sit in the back, a Lucid engineer drove it, and they had to add many 50 pound lead weights to bring the car up to the expected production weight because the car was still missing pretty much the entire interior. (It only had basic seats.)

I don't know if the Car&Driver test was the same.

That's the problem with all this information - it's hard to get all of the facts. We'll see what happens in a few months. I think they are revealing the production model on September 9th. I'm sure they will offer tests with the car after that. I would be surprised if they would announce 517 miles of range at this point only to have the media say their full of it 3 weeks later. Would not be a good look.

 

[Unknown_Wizard]

Elon didn't twitter about Tesla a few days now... Quiet period?

Bought some more shares this evening.

Not an advice.

 

[Lessmog]

Elon didn't twitter about Tesla a few days now... Quiet period?

Hmm. Whatever for?
Maybe he is otherwise engaged with Starship testing? Or something else. The man multitasks, yano.

 

[Tes La Ferrari]

Today was one of the very rare occasions that I bought within $4 of the daily low (thus far). $1369

 

[Nocturnal]

True, but if you have to stop and charge to make your destination at least one more time, you are far better off to slow down and avoid the stop (if possible). The time it takes to replenish the mileage lost from driving higher speeds far exceeds the time saved driving fast. The only time I drive fast is when I know I'm on my last leg (or have to make a long stop regardless). It's very hard for me to convince myself to do this, but it proves itself to be true every time. And obviously the situation changes depending on the trip. But, unless I had 500 or 600 miles of true range, slowing down usually gets me to my destination quicker than driving fast.

It can be situational, but generally I agree. Some folks focus on the fact that you can charge faster than you can deplete but that really depends on how quickly you can get to the SC. Some of my normal SC stops are 5-10 minutes off the highway.

 

[Mike Smith]

CNBC is suggesting China will punish Tesla for Tic Toc. Of course this makes no sense at all - Tesla builds their cars in China using Chinese suppliers, and is planning R&D and design studios in China. In fact of all US companies Tesla makes about the least sense for China to target. What a surprise CNBC chose them.

Wall Street is worried China will retaliate against companies like Apple and Tesla after TikTok ban

 

[Curt Renz]

Elon didn't twitter about Tesla a few days now... Quiet period?
...

Last night:

 

[SoGA Fan Club]

Pretty much this. A company can always out spec Tesla or beat them on pricing by badly compromising specs/quality. But anyone promising the combination should be questioned thoroughly until the product is out on the road.

I will say this - all things being equal (which obviously they are not at this point), Tesla will not be able to compete with Lucid if they continue to build cars in Fremont. Lucid is building their factory in Arizona I believe. As Elon stated a week ago, California workers have a sense of entitlement, and they simply don't have to work very hard (always some type of gov't safety net to catch them and they know it). Not to mention the higher labor costs. So, it's going to be hard for Tesla to compete in the long run if they continue to build cars in California.

There's no way Tesla could sell the CyberTruck at its stated prices if it were built in Fremont. I'm really anxious to see what happens to the price of the Y once it is being built in Texas. The paint quality will at least improve by a large amount.