Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[StealthP3D]

Commercials on the screen would really be irritating unless you can opt out of them (one opt-out kills them all). I'm not even sure it would be worth it if the the car was free.

Tesla doesn't like commercials either so I don't think you need to worry about that (at least not now). But when your stomach is talking to you or you want a quick cup of hot coffee in an unfamiliar area, it would be nice to be able to search for it (and maybe get a discount in the process). It would be nice if it handled the payment method seamlessly too.

That's what I love about the Supercharging experience vs. Chargepoint, etc. It should be about making life more seamless and convenient.

 

[Jack6591]

Tesla doesn't like commercials either so I don't think you need to worry about that (at least not now). But when your stomach is talking to you or you want a quick cup of hot coffee in an unfamiliar area, it would be nice to be able to search for it (and maybe get a discount in the process). It would be nice if it handled the payment method seamlessly too.

That's what I love about the Supercharging experience vs. Chargepoint, etc. It should be about making life more seamless and convenient.

I don’t know that Tesla nor even Elon Musk dislike advertising. I certainly wouldn’t accept that they hate it.

I would agree that they feel paying for unnecessary advertising, doesn’t make sense; not one little bit.

In fact I would be inclined to call Elon the reigning king of unpaid advertising.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

What to expect from Tesla on 'battery day'

Wouldn't be a normal day without the CNBS FUD....Hope Elon just blows away everyone on Tuesday.

 

[Jack6591]

What to expect from Tesla on 'battery day'

View attachment 590198
Wouldn't be a normal day without the CNBS FUD....Hope Elon just blows away everyone on Tuesday.

I agree, Elon’s leadership is fleshing-out. He continues to rise to the increasing challenge.

 

[JohnnyEnglish]

I am trying to get a rough idea of the impact of cell size on cost per watt hour. I haven't seen any analysis on this, so if you have seen something please point me in the right direction.

Does anyone have any knowledge of what proportion of the total cell cost is raw materials vs the proportion that is manufacturing cost? When I look at the cost of AA vs AAA batteries they seem to be roughly the same price per cell so I am assuming that the cost of the raw materials is not a high proportion of the total cell cost.

Using the original postulation of a 4070 cell which has roughly 4x the volume of the 2170

I may be completely wrong with this logic but if:

1. raw materials are 50% (for example) of the cost of a 2170 cell and
2. the manufacturing (ex raw materials) cost of a 2170 cell and the new 4x larger volume cell are broadly the same

Then the cost of the 4x larger cell would be 250% (4x 50% + 50%) of the 2170 but the capacity of the cell would be 4x that of the 2170. In cost terms that would make the cost per watt hour about 5/8ths or 62.5% of the 2170. If raw materials are a lower proportion, say 40%, then the cost per watt hour falls even further. Similarly if the new cell is even larger (5498).

Do we have any battery cell production experts on the thread that can give an accurate view of how cell costs increase as the cell size increases, and hence the relative cost per watt hour?

Thanks in advance

 

[MP3Mike]

Does anyone have any knowledge of what proportion of the total cell cost is raw materials vs the proportion that is manufacturing cost? When I look at the cost of AA vs AAA batteries they seem to be roughly the same price per cell so I am assuming that the cost of the raw materials is not a high proportion of the total cell cost.

The cost is primarily materials. I've seen a breakdown before, but couldn't find that one again but here is another one: 82. THE COST COMPONENTS OF A LITHIUM ION BATTERY - Qnovo

 

[gabeincal]

So if my Pandora subscription is non-taxable in CA does that mean an FSD subscription is non-taxable as well?

If that’s the case, why do I pay sales tax on the software portion when buying a new car that has FSD included?

 

[Joe F]

I'm not talking about an "app store" in a Tesla. They can sell car washes, parking, tires, hotels, drive-thru meals, coffee, anything you might need on the road. Tesla can sign contracts with providers of these services. $10/year doesn't even scratch the surface. Use your imagination.

That would be the day I sold out of $TSLA and quite possibly the best car I’ve ever owned.

That would be a monumental mistake, and one I doubt would ever happen. Would be worse than billboards that clutter the environment.

 

[Knightshade]

Smartphone apps sell for a buck or two. I don't think any apps on a Tesla store would be that cheap. I would expect them to be more like $10-$20. Fewer apps, but much higher price. And lots of apps that have something like a $5 monthly fee rather than a one time purchase. Even if they aren't a huge revenue source at first, it would be a huge differentiator for Tesla and would provide lots of great functionality for owners.

What apps can you think of a tesla owner would pay $10-$20 and/or a $5 monthly fee for? (especially ones that would not use LTE bandwidth to the degree it'd cost Tesla additional money likely in excess of their profit from the app long term)

 

[Sofie]

What to expect from Tesla on 'battery day'

View attachment 590198
Wouldn't be a normal day without the CNBS FUD....Hope Elon just blows away everyone on Tuesday.

I’m sure these headlines fuel his fire!

 

[Navin]

I just noticed something worth mentioning here. Elon has approx 39 mil folks on Twitter that follow him. He follows only approx 100 people. 4 of those are analysts at ARK. Think it’s because he appreciates their core beliefs and perspective. Puts more weight on their credibility in the marketplace. IMO.


Tasha, Brett, Sam and Kathie

 

[llirk]

What apps can you think of a tesla owner would pay $10-$20 and/or a $5 monthly fee for? (especially ones that would not use LTE bandwidth to the degree it'd cost Tesla additional money likely in excess of their profit from the app long term)

I'd subscribe to Starlink premium connectivity for $5/mo or $50/yr!

 

[MTL_HABS1909]

One of our neighbors purchased a brand new e-tron...... Wondering how long it’s going to stay in their household...

Question to members: when would you like a drone flyover? Tue morning? During battery day? Afterwards? Anything specific beyond Kato and the Factory? I’m ready!!

Please offer them my condolences.

 

[LN1_Casey]

A new, uncommon take on what may come out for BD.

 

[JohnnyEnglish]

The cost is primarily materials. I've seen a breakdown before, but couldn't find that one again but here is another one: 82. THE COST COMPONENTS OF A LITHIUM ION BATTERY - Qnovo

Thanks for the breakdown @MP3Mike. Based on these figures then the cost of a 4070 cell would be roughly 280% that of a 2170 (4x 60% + 40%) for 4x the capacity so cost per watt hour would be roughly 70% of the 2170 cost.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Rivian and JB's new venture both looking good:

Rivian is building a couple hundred pre-production vehicles, and will launch 3 vehicles next year.

JB's recycling startup is working with Panasonic and Amazon.

Interesting stuff. Rivian is going to be shipping three different vehicles next year, the truck, suv and an Amazon delivery vehicle. He called the truck and suv halo vehicles meaning they are premium priced, but he said the delivery vehicle is price comparable to an equivalent ICE vehicle out of the gate, which I find hard to believe, but if true, wow. And then it is cheaper than ICE taking into account lifecycle costs like fuel and maintenance.

Rivian has 2,700 employees right now. They will share the battery system, drivetrain, a lot of the electrical system and computer systems across all three vehicles.

JB was his usual, keep his cards close to the vest self. Didn’t really tell us much. He’s hard to read. Does that mean he has figured out how to recycle economically, or does it mean he’s still figuring it out as a basic research project and there is still risk he might not figure it out? The reporter tried her best, she was pretty good. She asked him the same question, essentially “how far are you along in your business”, at least four different ways and JB dodged every time.

 

[JRP3]

I don’t know that Tesla nor even Elon Musk dislike advertising.

Elon has basically said as much, he realizes there is better use for their money.
"Tesla does not advertise or pay for endorsements. Instead, we use that money to make the product great."
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1129924410339495937?s=20

 

[StealthP3D]

I don’t know that Tesla nor even Elon Musk dislike advertising. I certainly wouldn’t accept that they hate it.

I would agree that they feel paying for unnecessary advertising, doesn’t make sense; not one little bit.

In fact I would be inclined to call Elon the reigning king of unpaid advertising.

Elon has let his dislike of traditional advertising be known (and it's not just the expense he doesn't like). But I'm sure he would not be opposed to being able to search for desired goods/services from the comfort of your Tesla while on the road in unfamiliar areas. That's not advertising, it's a directory service (to the best providers). That would get Elon's stamp of approval because it would be useful (and if I know Elon, he would ensure it was a superior experience). Partners would pay good money to be included in the directory once Tesla owners reach critical mass (which isn't that far off in the bigger picture).

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

Talking about advertising: my newspaper, the second biggest in The Netherlands, ran an ‘ad’ for Tesla yesterday. They have a negative bias against Tesla, which I regularly complain about with the reporters and editor. This report was pretty neutral and factual though. Here’s what they published on page 2.

Translation:

Driver sleeps,
Tesla drives itself.

In Canada a Tesla driver has been charged for reckless driving after he fell asleep on a highway with autopilot engaged. The self driving car was also speeding, the police reports. A Tesla can steer, speed up and brake on its own.

Note the picture: a guy using a laptop and phone in his Tesla.

That picture and the guy falling asleep at the wheel set a bad example, but I bet the reaction of many of the 500,000 readers is... I want one!

 

[willow_hiller]

Rivian has 2,700 employees right now. They will share the battery system, drivetrain, a lot of the electrical system and computer systems across all three vehicles.

In speaking of Rivian, has anyone else watched the first couple of episodes of The Long Way Up?

Fully charged did an interview about it a few days ago, and the full episodes are available on Apple TV. I watched the first three last night.

It's really fascinating; Harley made them custom versions of the Livewire electric motorbikes, and Rivian made them VIN 001 and 002 of their R1T for a trip from the Southern tip of Argentina to Los Angeles.

The funny thing is I believe it was filmed in Summer 2019, and the 001 and 002 Rivians look so jury-rigged. They've got these chunky buttons and switches hardwired into the electrics that look like they came out of the bargain bin at a RadioShack.