Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[EVDRVN]

You guys have quite fertile imaginations. This is politics. Subsidies shouldn't be flowing to foreign made EVs from Ford or GM, but they will......and that's what this is all about. By saying union over and over again, Biden distracts from the fact the Mach-E is made in Mexico. If he didn't, the mob would be shouting for domestic production.

Tesla will be getting by far the most out of these subsidies because they'll sell most vehicles while the subsidies are in place. The others will benefit by noting having to build in America.

Likely not customers as well if Tesla keeps raiding the prices. Should be interesting to see how that plays out. If Tesla raises prices to wipe much of the credit and other car makers do not then how does that look? Not good IMO, they will use demand excuses but it's just shifting the credit from the consumer to Tesla.

 

[MXWing]

Likely not customers as well if Tesla keeps raiding the prices. Should be interesting to see how that plays out. If Tesla raises prices to wipe much of the credit and other car makers do not then how does that look? Not good IMO, they will use demand excuses but it's just shifting the credit from the consumer to Tesla.

In other words, capitalism.

Expect any and all companies to shift their curves for optimal revenue.

 

[Tes La Ferrari]

Im probably missing something but couldn't Tesla workers form a "Progressive Auto Workers Union" where there are no union dues and union workers just fight for stock based compensation and ask the company to do things that benefit their shares? I mean to me thats basically what they have done by collectively not joining a union anways. Just call it a union instead of saying they collectively aren't a union.

Could see Elon calling it "not-a-union". Local 420.

 

[Rarity]

Thus far it is appearing that President Biden will not support any US manufacturer that is not unionized. He seems also to aggressively deny that Tesla exists.
I wish it were not so, but it seems clear that he will do all he can to limit the US incentives to unionized traditional manufacturers. Just think, he's promoting the F150 Lightning, a vehicle that does not exist. He's ignoring the only domestic US developer and producer of BEV.

I wish I were wrong. As it stands his policies will exclude Tesla from all incentives, at least if he stands solid with 'union only'. Of course that leaves out not only Tesla but every US producer other than GM, Ford and Chrysler. Hopefully something changes soon.

While I agree that this is regrettable, it won't be long before Tesla has more American workers than these other companies. The politics should be expected to follow.

And before then, I doubt the California delegation would write an exclusion into law, no matter their views on unions.

 

[EVortex]

Biden won't say the name, "Tesla" but he is too smart to exclude them.

 

[RobStark]

BTW The Four Democrat Senators from California and Nevada should be telling the Biden Administration they will block this EV legislation if it excludes Tesla. This is gross professional malpractice if they don't. They dont' have a GM , Ford, or Stellantis (Chrysler)factory in their States.

Texas' two Republican Senators should be offering to support this bill if it includes Tesla and GigaTexas production. Although Sen Cruz of Texas is a pure ideologue and probably won't.

Tesla doesn't "NEED" the Federal Incentive. But I would rather Tesla not be at a $7k-$7.5k perpetual disadvantage against every other EV in the market place.

 

[dww12]

We need to @ Greg Abbot and Ted Cruise. Maybe they can point out that there is a world class EV/battery factory being built right now in their state and they won’t stand to be left out of this Democrat bill.

 

[ClimateOptimst]

Yes, I say the SP is a reflection of us all (all people involved around the world). The reason the market is irrational is because people are irrational. The reason the market wrongly prices companies is because people are often wrong. The reason the market is manipulated is because people manipulate. And so on...

None of that has anything to do with your facts. You’re looking for factual reasons for current SP movement. I’m telling you it’s not about any of it. It should be but it’s not. And people here are falling for the bs time and time again and adding to it. It’s causing them angst, bickering and hard feelings.

(Everyone) Stop adding to the FUD. Stop getting caught up in the opinions. Stick to the facts OF THE COMPANY and what it’s doing. The rollercoaster ceases to cause terror and projectile vomit the very moment you don’t buy a ticket. That’s a fact.

Here’s another set of facts; every single investment I made prior to TSLA was intended to grow a retirement nest egg so I wouldn’t have to eat dog food down the road. Every single one can be classified as a failure. Lesson learned.

My TSLA investment was initiated from my own extensive research that revealed these facts back in 2011:

Elon Musk is a uniquely extraordinary one of a kind individual and certain other members of Tesla at the time (like JB) are also exceedingly talented.

The Master Plan in its brilliant simplicity is the most logical way to proceed.

The risk is astronomically high, but every fiber of my being says the risk is worth taking. (My instincts are factual. I have a lifetime of personal evidence.)

I don’t have anything else to go on. Is that enough? Oddly, yes it is (though I did argue with myself for several months before taking the plunge).

Not once did the thought ever cross my mind to invest in TSLA for the money potential. That’s a fact. Even when I added demand shares, it was about giving a middle finger to the wrongness spouting from people’s mouths, not the money.

For the millionth time, stop focusing on the white noise; the SP gyrations, the headlines, the Twitter, the Bitcoin, the missed timelines etc... Unplug the TV and see the bigger factual picture; growing sales, consistent margins, additional factory build-outs, increased efficiencies, constant fast flowing innovation, free cash flow, expanding charging network etc... and the money will follow and you’ll be happier for not having got caught up in all the ridiculous drama.

Agree 100%. Let's all not worry, be happy. Stock price today in presplit dollars is $2,900 for cripes sake & far beyond what most of us would have predicted a year ago.
Six months or a year or 2 years from now there's a high probability it will be much higher than that.
Now going back to life...

 

[Cherry Wine]

In case others missed it, earlier today I spotlighted some California legislation that is looking at this exact issue. It requires manufacturers to meet workforce and labor standards in order to be eligible for state EV incentives, but does not require that workforce to be unionized.

The California legislature is far more beholden to unions than the US Congress (unions still wield tremendous influence in Sacramento), and even it is not excluding Tesla from EV incentives based on unionization.

Again, as of right now, this is a non-issue.

 

[Rarity]

Tesla doesn't "NEED" the Federal Incentive. But I would rather Tesla not be at a $7k-$7.5k perpetual disadvantage against every other EV in the market place.

But really, I agree with @PlaidCPA. The status quo seems to be working fine for Tesla, even though it is at a temporary $7.5k disadvantage against some EVs.

I think many here have stars in their eyes for a $7.5k credit for everyone, but I doubt it would help Tesla or TSLA much in the long run. So I would just as soon see Biden's proposal die.

 

[jkirkwood001]

There goes the quality / panel gap FUD View attachment 663418

I'm not an engineer but I think the two castings and structural pack reduces a lot of tiny but compounding misalignments, right? I have a feeling that this change not only reduces cost and the number of robots needed for these parts but probably also reduces cost and increases speed across the entire line. Seems like the processes further down the line get easier once the underlying structure is more precise and consistent.

Also might allow them to spin up new factories in a smaller footprint at a lower cost.

I think we're all going to be really impressed by the margin and growth once this new process is implemented

In a way, I'd love for us to be able to look back, years from now, and say "remember how irregular and roughly-made our first 2018 Tesla was?? no comparison to the rigour and precision of the latest production model! hehe!" Lessons learned from Sandy et. al.

 

[Singuy]

But really, I agree with @PlaidCPA. The status quo seems to be working fine for Tesla, even though it is at a temporary $7.5k disadvantage.

The 7.5 difference is mostly absorbed by the lack of economic of scale from other EV makers so they have to price their EVs higher. I wouldn't say this will last forever.

 

[Rarity]

The 7.5 difference is mostly absorbed by the lack of economic of scale from other EV makers so they have to price their EVs higher. I wouldn't say this will last forever.

From what I'm seeing, these folks are squandering the runway that the current tax credit has given them. So why should Tesla worry?

 

[MXWing]

But really, I agree with @PlaidCPA. The status quo seems to be working fine for Tesla, even though it is at a temporary $7.5k disadvantage against some EVs.

I think many here have stars in their eyes for a $7.5k credit for everyone, but I doubt it would help Tesla or TSLA much in the long run. So I would just as soon see Biden's proposal die.

Your opinion is not popular but you are not wrong.

Better no one gets it than "everyone except Tesla" because Elon is not bending the knee to pandering overlords.

 

[elasalle]

But really, I agree with @PlaidCPA. The status quo seems to be working fine for Tesla, even though it is at a temporary $7.5k disadvantage against some EVs.

I think many here have stars in their eyes for a $7.5k credit for everyone, but I doubt it would help Tesla or TSLA much in the long run. So I would just as soon see Biden's proposal die.

Refund/Rebate for All, or Refund/Refund for none.

If Tesla is the only one that doesn't get it, it would mean Tesla loses 7.5K innovation edge.

Free money has a big pshycological effect. Folks would choose this over core competencies/efficiencies.

 

[OrthoSurg]

But really, I agree with @PlaidCPA. The status quo seems to be working fine for Tesla, even though it is at a temporary $7.5k disadvantage against some EVs.

I think many here have stars in their eyes for a $7.5k credit for everyone, but I doubt it would help Tesla or TSLA much in the long run. So I would just as soon see Biden's proposal die.

It’s just an interesting incentive for EVs in general. It’s just sad that every politician wants to exclude Tesla systematically everywhere. Same thing here in Canada which is excluding the Model Y for the $8,000 provincial and $5,000 federal incentives.

PR department at Tesla must be in despair seeing all the lobbying from other unionized Legacy automakers. Unions just made our healthcare system collapse here during the pandemic. They refused that other professionals take on some tasks of the OR nurses saying they had trained 4 years to learn how to mount a sterile table. Now they have over 50% sick leave rates globally. Everything running under 50% for the last year and deteriorating.

They are advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Rarity]

If Tesla is the only one that doesn't get it, it would mean Tesla loses 7.5K innovation edge.

But I thought we established that this was unlikely in the extreme? Is Pelosi going to be fine with a company employing tens of thousands of people in her city getting the shaft?

I'm fine with nobody getting the credit/rebate. I'm even fine with the current status quo.

 

[thx1139]

Tesla will not claim the $7500 tax credit with higher price. By that I mean they wont raise prices by $7,500. They may claim some of it by doing what they have already done. Other manufacturers will use it to try and stay competitive to Tesla and not lose as much money and Tesla will use a little of it for larger profits.

 

[Singuy]

Don't know why everyone is so worried. If this thing becomes union only, then Elon will have a team crack open the union bi-laws and create Union 2.0 and have everyone in Tesla join that. Giving Elon a chance to improve and at the same time satirize union 1.0? You know that's how he rolls.

 

[woodisgood]

It's hilarious (because there aren't words to convey how sad and disappointing it is) to me how everyone tries to pretend Tesla doesn't exist, like it's some foreign (alien?) manufacturer that slipped in under the radar and now makes cars within our borders. With American workers. With about as impressive an American supply chain as you can get.

The opposite should be true - Tesla should be held up as THE pinnacle of American innovation, entrepreneurship, dedication, and perseverance. But we continue to coddle the laggards - who have all but crippled our future on this planet - without acknowledging the cream that has risen to the top.