Not worried about about the truth ... Tesla still has a TON of advantages I don't need to go into here as we all know. I am worried about how WS will treat TSLA as the narrative is very important and Ford has done a great job presenting this truck, having the POTUS drive your car .... not bad PR.You're worried? I sincerely doubt that F will be making any money on the base version of this truck. Not directly, at least. Based off of this article, the standard range is estimated to have a 140kwh battery pack:
Revealed: 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning - Hagerty Media
Ford just yanked the silk off its new, all-electric 2022 F-150 Lightning pickup. It might be the most important EV yet.www.hagerty.com
"That said, a quick extrapolation from charge rates would suggest that the standard-range Lightning battery sits around 140 kWh, and the extended-range pack around 180 kWh."
As others have mentioned, this is most likely a compliance vehicle built for ev credits. They won't build any more than they need to provide credits for their gas guzzling ICE F-150s and any other ICE they still sell.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Yeah that is basically the case. They had to ‘match’ Tesla for marketing on price, but in reality are 10-15k away from it… with less tech and from the sounds of it, 53k may not even include the towing package. So ~55+k for a 230mi truck without any sort of adaptive cruise control or lane centering.
asburgers
Sell order in at $8008.5
0-60 in 1.1? Mind blown. Imma need to make more tendies to get that. Stock better 
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JusRelax
Active Member
Oh, ok. Looks like I misunderstood your worry. Regardless, anyone that is a long time investor has no need to worry. In the long run, i don't believe the F-150 Lightning changes Tesla's valuation very much at all. Like others have been preaching, it's all about the batteries, and Tesla seems to be the only one with a plan on how to secure enough batteries for truly mass scale production of EVs.
0-60 in 1.1? Mind blown. Imma need to make more tendies to get that. Stock better
What is that in terms of Gs? Jesus.
EDIT: Okay just looked it up - 2.49g. Not bad.
Surpised no one mentioned this today: Bloomberg TV & online were pushing the china April Tesla sales numbers story all day as a new news story. I won't paste the link due to the nonsense framing, but the one interesting little tidbit was that Tesla china appears to have confirmed the April numbers and two week shutdown of model y line:
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
I think you might be pleasantly surprised with the Cybertrucks "air" suspension. Of course it won't be the kind of air suspension that is a common mod on trucks and SUV's to give them more load capacity using an air bladder. This is going to be a clean-sheet design using Tesla's learnings from the Model S and Model X air suspensions and it will be built to a higher standard to make it reliable in a truck application. I think Tesla will go all out on this new design because they know the Cybertruck is going to be a high volume vehicle and it needs to be robust and reliable. IMO, it's going to break new ground in truck suspensions.
It all goes back to what Elon said when he introduced the Cybertruck and said it would handle like a sportscar and be the most capable off-road truck. Muhammed Ali might have said it best when he said, "floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee".
Solid axles do have a reputation for reliability and load capacity but they are not necessary to achieve that - it's more a function of engineering and cost. Legacy makers have been complacent in that they keep doing it the same way, mostly for cost reasons. Independent suspension has numerous fundamental advantages that Tesla aims to leverage by engineering it such that costs are controlled and reliability and load capacity are maintained.
Of course an adjustable air suspension is a separate question from independent suspension and a non-adjustable suspension will be cheaper and more reliable than an adjustable one. Just like a reduction gear will be cheaper and more reliable than a multi-speed transmission (in general). If you don't want or need the advantages of an adjustable suspension, sure, save some money and make it more simple with less parts to wear out. But it won't perform as well or be as versatile in varied conditions. And there is no rule that a multi-speed transmission or an adjustable suspension cannot be reliable. It's as reliable as it's engineered and manufactured.
There's a reason Ford went with fully independent suspension on the F-150, for the first time ever, on the Lightning. Because they knew they had to compete, at least somewhat, with Tesla on ride quality. A solid axle wasn't going to cut it. It's archaic.
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Tesla sales demand plunges, adding to headaches after protest
A Shanghai-based Tesla representative said in a WeChat message the sequential decline was linked to a two-week adjustment to an assembly line for the Model Y crossover and increasing export volume.
www.autonews.com
And like American Bandstand the hits just keep on coming.
Tesla working with China to probe crash involving policemen
A traffic policeman died after being injured in the accident, while another officer was expected to survive after also sustaining injuries.
www.autonews.com
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
The Ford F-150 Lightning validates electric trucks in the eyes of the public and changes Tesla's valuation for the better (in the long run). I was impressed how they presented electrification in such a positive light (even if the specs/price ratio is non-competitive with the Cybertruck). They will still sell all they are willing to make because plenty of people make decisions that are not logical. Electric F-150 sales will displace gas truck sales, not Cybertruck sales.
Unless I am missing something, the F-150 Lightning will only have around 150 miles of range when towing at the highest end model?
CT towing way more palatable as you'd get at least 5 hours of driving at 250 miles towing range off initial charge, and 4 for subsequent stops.
Both have more than sufficient range to haul things around town, but towing is where an EV truck is put to the test.
Crippling the FUNCTION of a truck just because to have the LOOK of a truck is going to kill you in the end.
Assuming Gas/Diesel trucks are continued to be built, it would pay to make them more aerodynamic, reducing the drag coefficients.
CT towing way more palatable as you'd get at least 5 hours of driving at 250 miles towing range off initial charge, and 4 for subsequent stops.
Both have more than sufficient range to haul things around town, but towing is where an EV truck is put to the test.
Crippling the FUNCTION of a truck just because to have the LOOK of a truck is going to kill you in the end.
Assuming Gas/Diesel trucks are continued to be built, it would pay to make them more aerodynamic, reducing the drag coefficients.
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Phobi
Member
You're worried? I sincerely doubt that F will be making any money on the base version of this truck. Not directly, at least. Based off of this article, the standard range is estimated to have a 140kwh battery pack:
Revealed: 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning - Hagerty Media
Ford just yanked the silk off its new, all-electric 2022 F-150 Lightning pickup. It might be the most important EV yet.
"That said, a quick extrapolation from charge rates would suggest that the standard-range Lightning battery sits around 140 kWh, and the extended-range pack around 180 kWh."
As others have mentioned, this is most likely a compliance vehicle built for ev credits. They won't build any more than they need to provide credits for their gas guzzling ICE F-150s and any other ICE they still sell.
Couldn't have said this better myself. They'll dam up deliveries and squeeze as much margin as they can from every ICE vehicle for as long as possible. This will be the exact same play with Dodge (Stellantis) and GM.
btw, the toe dipped in the couch and drew blood one last time for 5 more @ 558 yesterday.
HODL.
The IEA says it’s the end for fossil fuels:
www.iea.org
Net Zero by 2050 – Analysis - IEA
Net Zero by 2050 - Analysis and key findings. A report by the International Energy Agency.
www.iea.org
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
I agree. It looks like they made it narrower than current F-150's to eek out a wee bit more range. It also looks lower to the ground than a 4x4 F-150, partly to disguise that it's narrower and partly to eek out a little more range. I don't think it's my imagination.
Oh, we're good till about 5gs before passing out, so plenty of room to improve then.
Well, a good moment to realise that ~$2B in deferred tax assets...
Also, I'm wondering if the recent drop in $TSLA means we get an quarter without recognising any new Elon stock-options?
Teslas independent accounting auditors have to agree to release that (IIRC) and that Tesla is unlikely to produce GAAP losses in future. unfortunately Tesla aint there yet in terms of removing that possibility, and in fact a key reason for that is Tesla's stupid choice to invest in Bitcoin, which given its volatility could easily sink Teslas GAAP net income in any quarter into the negative.
LiveLong&Profit
Member
A big battery makes a ton of sense, yes.
The form factor is *not* optimal for reducing drag, so the efficiency will be low just because of that. Add to that, we have seen that traditional auto is far behind Tesla in making power electronics, and control logic for optimizing efficiency.
BUT - throw in a big enough battery, and that cancels out. Only two problems: Cost and off course volume - you can make fewer cars for same amount of batteries.
My guess would be that not a lot of Lightning will be sold at 40K USD - if any. For that you probably get a chassis, small battery and wheels....
They will up sell, and stealerships will add margin too.
Given that we know that Ford is late to the market, and given what we know about latecomers trying to secure battery deliveries at all even at high prices,
with an assumed big battery (120-150 kWh), can Ford make these profitable, even at ASP around 70K USD?
Interesting times ahead...
According to a Top Fuel dragster driver I spoke to: " you hit the gas, wait until your eyesight returns, then pull the 'chute ". This would probably have been with around a 0.8-1.0s time for 0-60.
1.1s 0-60 is going to be............entertaining.
LiveLong&Profit
Member
Is 1.1 even possible without special tires?
Still - even if it is a bit higher, it is super cool - bragging rights secured!
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