Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Johan]

I now have deep ITM Leaps, much deeper and much sooner than expected. I'm starting to think about exercising the options instead of selling them in order to avoid paying taxes on the gain. Is there a disadvantage of exercising them before the expiry date?

If there is significant time left until expiration you'll essentially be giving away the time value so not a good idea.

Edit: So if you are to to this you should wait until close to expiry so that any time value left in the option is negligable.

 

[Electroman]

Statement from Tesla about allowing other brands to use 10 Superchargers in The Netherlands (translated from Duch language):

Today we are starting our pilot at 10 locations in the Netherlands to open up Superchargers for electric cars from brands other than Tesla.

Access to an extensive, easily accessible and reliable network of fast chargers is essential for accelerating the transition to electric driving on a large scale. That is why, since 2012, after the commissioning of our first Superchargers, we have focused on a rapid expansion of the network. There are currently more than 25,000 Superchargers worldwide.

With this pilot we offer Dutch drivers of Non-Tesla's the possibility to use our Superchargers at 10 locations via the Tesla app (version 4.2.3 or higher). Tesla owners can continue to use these charging stations in the same way they are used to. We will closely monitor the flow at the locations and listen to the experiences of our customers.

Our ambition has always been to open the Supercharger network to Non-Tesla electric cars in order to encourage more drivers to make the switch to electric driving. This fits in seamlessly with our mission to accelerate the global transition to sustainable energy.

The more customers use the Supercharger network, the faster we can expand the network. Our goal is to quickly gain experience and make any necessary adjustments. In addition, we will continue to rapidly expand our network so that hopefully in the future we can welcome both Tesla owners and Non-Tesla drivers to our Superchargers around the world.

Edit: extra info about the pricing:

Price
Will the price of charging at a Supercharger change for Tesla owners?
Tesla owners continue to pay the same price for charging.

How much does it cost to charge Non-Teslas?
The charging price charged to Non-Tesla owners includes the additional costs associated with charging a large number of different cars and made to make the locations suitable for cars from other brands. The costs vary by location. You can view the charging prices in the Tesla app. The price per kWh for charging can be reduced by taking out a charging subscription.

Are idle fees also charged at Non-Tesla's?
Yes. The same rules and fee structure apply to both Tesla owners and Non-Teslas to ensure that charging stations become available again as soon as possible. Learn more about how the idle fee works.

Owners of other brands will have to download the Tesla-app (version 4.2.3 or higher) for IOS or Android and have to make a Tesla-account.

What about Adapters ? to connect the sleek Tesla charging plug to the clumsy and bigly CCS socket? Should owners buy them from Tesla shop?

Also curious how will Tesla SCs will understand CCS protocol?

 

[SunCatcher]

Okay, half the daily average volume in 45 minutes. The Shortzes, MMs, and Algos are working it this morning!

Guess they will run out of their daily supply of powder here soon and things will get back to Norminal.

Norminal? Yes, I like that. Max Q would be OK too. Let's Go!

 

[Mengy]

Owners of other brands will have to download the Tesla-app (version 4.2.3 or higher) for IOS or Android and have to make a Tesla-account.

This is brilliant. Tesla is using it's superchargers to get non-Tesla EV owners into it's app network and database system, exposing them to how wonderful Tesla software is. Plus another subscription and revenue source, but from non-Tesla EV owners no less!!!!

Elon playing chess while the other OEM's are playing checkers.

 

[elasalle]

This is brilliant. Tesla is using it's superchargers to get non-Tesla EV owners into it's app network and database system, exposing them to how wonderful Tesla software is. Plus another subscription and revenue source, but from non-Tesla EV owners no less!!!!

Elon playing chess while the other OEM's are playing checkers.

Non- Tesla EV owners should be made to pass the EV test
.What is KwH?
.What is battery efficiency?
.What is OTA ?

 

[winfield100]

Lol. Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Just kidding…was just a thought considering that when I was researching to buy a Y most video reviews and comments here in the model y forum, would name the supercharging network as the number one selling point. Remove that selling point and it completely changes the discussion. I didn’t even bother looking at other options because of this.

Glad the consensus here is that this would have no impact on Tesla.

OT but answering question somewhat
At EVADC club meeting a few years back, 19 year old Leaf owner (the Leaf’s had passive cooling of the batteries and controlled it vaguely by refusing to accept a charge until the battery cooled down by passive external air flow) took a trip from just outside washington dc to Boston, massachusetts, i think around 900 miles, to visit his 19 year old girlfriend
(“love laughs at Lox myths).

it took around 3.5 days there and back, with at least 2 incidents of the batteries refusing to charge DC Fast charge, as they were way too hot, and the leaf had around 100 miles range full charge.

This was when there were only Model S60’s and 85’s (and a few software constrained S40’s) and Tesla superchargers were few and far between and an S60 didn’t have the range due to lack of charging infrastructure to get from DC to NYC

It’s basically Tesla’s
and from =7 short years ago

 

[Sofie]

I have to wait until Thursday or Friday to buy more because, apparently, it take almost 2 weeks to sell stock in a private company .
I’m just hoping it’ll be lower by the end of this week so I can buy all 100 shares I want to add to my collection.
Then we may proceed our upwards trajectory promptly.

 

[2daMoon]

Synchronize your watches. Morning walkdown appears to be over.

Let's GO!

 

[Mengy]

Another day, another new ATH. Today it's $1154. So far.

 

[BrownOuttaSpec]

Amusing that bears focus on car sales when Tesla's business fundamentally changed today as Tesla is now a mass transport energy supplier.

It's equally as amusing when you realize how much of the charging service market share Tesla has when you look at how many superchargers they have out against the competition + how much they have coming online in the coming years. It's like Tesla owns 75% of all the "EV" gas stations in the world.

And they are sandbagging their numbers of Superchargers. More and more pop up every day that aren't on the planned Supercharger map. Imagine being the competition and looking at the Official Supercharger deployment map but then seeing 50% more chargers come online than were planned. (The ones without "Tesla" in the column aren't listed on the Official Tesla Map. Data from the crowdsourced website supercharge.info)

 

[elasalle]

Mr Max Pain himself is above 1K

 

[StealthP3D]

Thanks for the thoughtful response. To be clear, I wasn't necessarily saying that the supercharger network is the only thing standing between Tesla and the competitors. But considering that the network is usually listed as a main selling point for a lot of car buyers on this forum, i thought it was worthy of at least a brief discussion.

The superior road trip charging of a Tesla is the easiest way to explain to an EV newbie why they probably don't want to buy anything else but I would NOT list it as the main selling point. Just because it's easier to explain and understand doesn't mean it's the main reason to buy a Tesla.

Buyers want value. When you buy an EV from the leader in EV technology you reduce your risk and get a superior product. When I'm buying a new car I want to buy the best quality car for the money I can get. I know that Tesla doesn't cheap out on components that you can't see. Even in 2018 I knew they wouldn't go out of business and I couldn't say the same thing about Nissan or GM. I don't want a laggy touchscreen or confusing user interface. I want a car that delights. I don't want a short range, a longer range minimizes the chances I'll even need to Supercharge.

That said, today's news that a non-Tesla will only be able to use a sub-set of the Supercharger locations actually strengthens, not weakens, the Supercharger advantage. As drivers of non-Tesla start to use the Tesla Network they will invariably be exposed to more convenient charging locations that are still off-limits to them. This will strengthen, not weaken, the Tesla Supercharger advantage because it will make non-Tesla drivers aware that they are not getting the full Tesla Supercharging experience. It's like giving a little bit of crack to a crack head. A little bit just makes them want more. That's on top of the fact that it's always more fun to know you're getting a good deal on those electrons! If legacy auto had the first and most extensive fast-charging network they would guard it's exclusivity like their life depended upon it. Tesla knows how big the potential EV market is and how big their lead is. Accelerating the switch to EV's will only strengthen Tesla. By opening much of the network to all, while keeping some locations exclusive, Tesla demonstrates who has real foresight. Tesla doesn't look down the road 2-3 years, they are looking a decade or more out, to a time when fast charging will be ubiquitous anyway.

Tesla investors who worried Tesla would become demand limited did not make the kind of returns that those of us who knew demand would not be a problem. Because those investors could not see the obvious truth, they either sold out early or only maintained a small position. Some people thought the 'competition was coming' was just a matter of time. They believed the 'Tesla killers' would ramp to high volume and gut Tesla's ability to sell cars. But they ignored legacy autos problem of cost to produce and poor value offered to the consumer. The Supercharger Network is only a small part of the Tesla advantage.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Mr Max Pain himself is above 1K

I'm seeing $1020 as of this morning.

 

[daniel]

There are some decent little EVs out there. A lot of the ubers I get these days are konas and niros. They seem like good little cars.

The Chinese are getting better fast too. Tesla bjorn has tested a lot that he in impressed with.

Are any of those available in quantities that make them significant entries in the EV market? There may be a lot of small players, and some legacy car makers making small numbers, but Tesla and Nissan are the ones I see. I don't doubt that some of those others are "good little cars." Pretty much anything electric will be better than anything gas. But they're insignificant in the market.

BTW, my Zap Xebra was made in China and I loved that car. It was badly designed and worse constructed and probably a death trap, but I loved it. It went 35 mph on level ground and had a range of 40 miles with an aftermarket battery pack, but I loved it. If I was still driving the Prius I would love ANY electric car.

 

[elasalle]

I'm seeing $1020 as of this morning.

Sorry I meant in Decimal ...1000 and not binary 1024

 

[StealthP3D]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1455139462082699265

He said (approximately), " I drove the Tesla for the first time last night. The car is a spaceship. I would get out of the way of Elon Musk if I were you . You don't want to get in the way of a spaceship that's moving silently on the road. I would just point that out to the shorts"

He could have said "You don't want to get in the way of Elon Musk. I would just point that out to the shorts and all the elected officials".

 

[2daMoon]

Is the Upper Bollinger Band now a line of support?

 

[StealthP3D]

If there is significant time left until expiration you'll essentially be giving away the time value so not a good idea.

Edit: So if you are to to this you should wait until close to expiry so that any time value left in the option is negligable.

That's not really an accurate way to look at it because if you convert the DITM calls to shares you capture the time value anyway. That's why they move almost exactly 1:1 with the shares!

 

[ZeApelido]

Do you know what this maybe once-in-a-lifetime investment feels like?

Like when I was 7 years old and found the cheat to skip levels in Super Mario Bros.

This life changing investment can't be that easy, can it?

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

I'm sure there's manipulators at work every day to steer the SP where they would like it to be, sometimes succeeding, sometimes not. But the conspiracy talk is getting a bit over the top:

- We had a 43% run-up in October, half of it during the last week
- The stock opens up +3% and goes down to +1%
- Which is still above the ATH closing price of Friday
- On a day when Nasdaq is hovering around 0%.

And then some people cry manipulation...