Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[StarFoxisDown!]

I'm reading this as 10pm for ownership reports like Form 4
"The acceptance date is not the same as the official filing date. If a filing is submitted after 5:30 PM or 10:00 PM EST, for non ownership reports and ownership reports respectively, it will not be deemed filed with the SEC until the following business day (except for the "T+3" filings, made pursuant to Rule 462(b), which will receive the date of the actual filing)."
SEC EDGAR Hours of Operation and Holidays - SEC EDGAR Deadlines

Edit: which explains the time code on this one from November: EDGAR Filing Documents for 0000899243-21-044242

Yeah, multiple times the forms came out around 5-6 pm. So we still have a while to wait this afternoon/evening

Edit: 5-6 pm pacific time

 

[aubreymcfato]

Maybe I can help you understand this. Yes, people are stupid and gullible and Elon's not going to fix that by buying Twitter. But it's normal for people to be stupid and gullible - it's a human trait because we are not as smart as many of us think we are. This has always been the case.

The really big problem facing humanity right now, the newest problem since we became aware of global climate issues, is that the tools people use to communicate with each other are amplifying their stupidity, hatred and ignorance and threatening to bring down all that is otherwise normally good about democracy and even capitalism itself. These communication platforms have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to amplify stupidity, hate and ignorance. Elon cannot prevent stupidity, hate and ignorance from existing, but he can reconfigure the communication platforms so they do not amplify the very things that are threatening humanity. This could change the trajectory of human civilization for the better and it's something that can be done without taking sides with liberals or conservatives.

It can be done while respecting people's right to speak their minds. It can be done while using open-source code and transparent rules instead of current rules that are hidden, mysterious and opaque. The current platforms are broken and they need fixing. And it is urgent if Elon is to carry out his other missions. That is why I say there is a strong synergy between the mission statement of Tesla and fixing social media. The only way to fix the biggest problems facing humanity is for all people to come together and that is currently not possible given the way information is disseminated and analyzed in the current state of reality.

I have been on Twitter for a decade, and I've never been reported. I can speak my mind as million other people.
Twitter has in fact a very mild moderation: sometime you report things, and rarely Twitter blocks someone for a period of time.
This is to say that you can really use Twitter as you please, right now.
Elon always talks about free speech online, never about fighting disinformation or hatred.
Which are, to my understanding, exactly opposites.
In fact, critics from the left are all about this: "freer" speech online often means more harassment, racial slurs, insults, rape jokes, you name it. Have you have looked at the "free speech" places online like 4chan, Reddit /pol/, 8chan? The ones where you can write anything you want and conspiracy theories like Qanon and Pizzagate are born and are cultivated?
Your eyes will melt. They were born exactly because other online places did kick them out: they are quite often the cesspool of humanity, where you can find all the worst stuff you can imagine. I encourage you to read about Fredrick Brennan, the creator of 8chan: Fredrick Brennan - Wikipedia

Maybe this is a generation gap: I understand people here are US-based, in their 50-60s, and of course we have a very different experience of Internet (and the life in general).
I just think (with a 20 year online experience on my belt) that platforms and software are very, very important, but nothing can fix how people communicate if people don't want to fix it themselves.
Even this tiny forum is moderated! If I were to insult everyone and make rape jokes about your families I'd be rightly blocked and banned in an instant.

Nobody really knows what Elon will do with Twitter, and I'm in favor of some ideas he mentioned.
But the "free speech" part gives me pause for the reasons I tried to outline.

 

[PeterJA]

Maybe I can help you understand this. Yes, people are stupid and gullible and Elon's not going to fix that by buying Twitter. But it's normal for people to be stupid and gullible - it's a human trait because we are not as smart as many of us think we are. This has always been the case.

The really big problem facing humanity right now, the newest problem since we became aware of global climate issues, is that the tools people use to communicate with each other are amplifying their stupidity, hatred and ignorance and threatening to bring down all that is otherwise normally good about democracy and even capitalism itself. These communication platforms have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to amplify stupidity, hate and ignorance. Elon cannot prevent stupidity, hate and ignorance from existing, but he can reconfigure the communication platforms so they do not amplify the very things that are threatening humanity. This could change the trajectory of human civilization for the better and it's something that can be done without taking sides with liberals or conservatives.

It can be done while respecting people's right to speak their minds. It can be done while using open-source code and transparent rules instead of current rules that are hidden, mysterious and opaque. The current platforms are broken and they need fixing. And it is urgent if Elon is to carry out his other missions. That is why I say there is a strong synergy between the mission statement of Tesla and fixing social media. The only way to fix the biggest problems facing humanity is for all people to come together and that is currently not possible given the way information is disseminated and analyzed in the current state of reality.

I'd like to amplify this non-stupid post.

Elon believes (and I agree) that the best weapon against lies is truth, not censorship. If you censor liars and their gullible followers, they will abandon the town square to form their own echo chambers of misinformation that fester and grow without challenge. Social media algorithms that feed folks only what they want to hear amplify the human tendency to form "ignorant armies [that] clash by night."

Communication technology can't fix stupid, but it could do a better job of challenging lies with truth and skepticism. One improvement could be AI that simply posts "What's your evidence for that statement?" Many humans seem to believe almost anything without evidence, but I can't believe they are the majority (although my only evidence is the fact that civilization has not collapsed). In the coming age of "deep fake" videos and AI-written propaganda, every human must learn skepticism of all media, if we want to avoid more shooting wars.

If Elon came out and said that they want to change the way the platform promotes information so that it promotes factual information and just lets false information fall to the bottom of the barrel that would be greeted by cheers. He hasnt said that....

Yes he did, in his own words. Why else do you think he is buying the platform? For his ego and self-enrichment, as Robert Reich claims?

 

[mongo]

Yes he did, in so many words. Why else do you think he is buying the platform? For his ego and self-enrichment, as Robert Reich claims?

Pravduh gets one step closer after 4 years.

 

[Gigapress]

But this does help lower the price at which new employees get vested which means they can create a lot more value as the share price climbs through this year and into next year. This can reduce wage pressures on the company as employees learn just how quickly the options can become valuable. It can also help Tesla attract even more top talent.

In other words, volatility can be very profitable for employees.

Additionally we have heard from former Tesla employees that the options vest based on the lowest TSLA price in the quarter.

I think this policy is brilliant because I bet it helps employees remain calmer with whipsawing prices because a big temporary dip actually helps them.

 

[SageBrush]

Contrary to what my wife thinks about me...that i am idiot for having never sold 1 share of $TSLA since 2016 and just kept on buying whenever we had $$ to spare...i think i qualify as 'most of us' on here

I hate to think what she calls you when you err.

 

[StealthP3D]

If Elon came out and said that they want to change the way the platform promotes information so that it promotes factual information and just lets false information fall to the bottom of the barrel that would be greeted by cheers. He hasnt said that. Doesnt need to block anything, but the most vile and direct calls for violence against people.

I was going to ignore this but maybe it should be addressed.

Everyone would not cheer if Elon announced he would promote truth and let false information fall to the bottom of the barrel because it creates the appearance that Elon would become the defacto arbiter of what is true and what is not. However, current algorithms do seem to prioritize anything that is extra controversial and that does reward false information and needs to stop.

I'm certainly not an expert on how social media works but it is apparent to me from Elon's Tweets about the different social media platforms (and their relative "goodness" or lack thereof) going back to at least 2019 indicates that he has been thinking about these problems for many years, probably talking about it with friends that know more than he does, Jack Dorsey, programmers, etc, The bottom line is Elon knows a lot more about it than you or I will likely ever know and I think he has identified a number of levers he can pull to redirect conversation in a less destructive manner when the functioning of the entire site is not designed to maximize ad revenue. Elon likely has ideas on other ways to monetize the site that are not destructive and he's willing to wait under the assumption that it takes time to grow value.

It's amazing how often the old adage that "Money is the root of all evil" is actually literally true. By not making revenue the number one priority I think the platform can be transformed into a more useful and more valuable tool for facilitating communication and understanding rather than dividing humanity and pitting people against one another as they spread the latest "news" on how unacceptably dangerous vaccinations are (or insert the false narrative of the day). I think Elon knows he doesn't have to label complex things "true" or "false" to reduce the amount of fake news that goes viral. He has a number of levers to pull to make social media become more real and less sensational.

 

[Accident]

welp

 

[Webeevdrivers]

I'd like to amplify this non-stupid post.

Elon believes (and I agree) that the best weapon against lies is truth, not censorship. If you censor liars and their gullible followers, they will abandon the town square to form their own echo chambers of misinformation that fester and grow without challenge. Social media algorithms that feed folks only what they want to hear amplify the human tendency to form "ignorant armies [that] clash by night."

Communication technology can't fix stupid, but it could do a better job of challenging lies with truth and skepticism. One improvement could be AI that simply posts "What's your evidence for that statement?" Many humans seem to believe almost anything without evidence, but I can't believe they are the majority (although my only evidence is the fact that civilization has not collapsed). In the coming age of "deep fake" videos and AI-written propaganda, every human must learn skepticism of all media, if we want to avoid more shooting wars.



Yes he did, in his own words. Why else do you think he is buying the platform? For his ego and self-enrichment, as Robert Reich claims?

I don’t know what to expect. Trump retweeted a tweet a number of times about “a good democrat is a dead democrat”. Will that now be acceptable?

The next election Is going to be an interesting in regards to twitter.

Jmho.

 

[geometro]

All speculation but a good article:

‘He Serves the Political Party of Elon Musk First and Foremost’ — POLITICO

Musk’s biographer explains what could be behind the billionaire’s recent buy of Twitter, and what it could mean for politics.

apple.news

 

[PeterJA]

I don’t know what to expect. Trump retweeted a tweet a number of times about “a good democrat is a dead democrat”. Will that now be acceptable?

The next election Is going to be an interesting in regards to twitter.

Jmho.

I too don't know what to expect, exactly. But I see value in that retweet. It tells me (if I didn't know already) exactly what sort of person the retweeter is.

 

[AudubonB]

Here's some good perspective for HODL'rs:

Sawyer Merritt on Twitter: "Some stocks right now vs their 52-week high:" / Twitter

• $AAPL: -8%
• $AMZN: -29%
• $TSLA: -29.8%
• $NVDA: -44%
• $PLTR: -63%
• $ARKK: -63.6%
• $LCID: -67.7%
• $CRSP: -69.6%
• $NFLX: -71.8%
• $ZM: -75%
• $BYND: -76%
• $ROKU: 79%
• $TDOC: -81%
• $RIVN: -87.9%
• $HOOD: -90%

(SP's including today's After-hrs session)

My favorite fraudstock: NKLA -62.1% (and -89.4% in two years.....)

 

[ZachF]

My favorite fraudstock: NKLA -62.1% (and -89.4% in two years.....)

I keep forgetting they exist, and every time I’m reminded of them I’m amazed they somehow still do…

 

[StealthP3D]

I have been on Twitter for a decade, and I've never been reported. I can speak my mind as million other people.
Twitter has in fact a very mild moderation: sometime you report things, and rarely Twitter blocks someone for a period of time.
This is to say that you can really use Twitter as you please, right now.
Elon always talks about free speech online, never about fighting disinformation or hatred.
Which are, to my understanding, exactly opposites.
In fact, critics from the left are all about this: "freer" speech online often means more harassment, racial slurs, insults, rape jokes, you name it. Have you have looked at the "free speech" places online like 4chan, Reddit /pol/, 8chan? The ones where you can write anything you want and conspiracy theories like Qanon and Pizzagate are born and are cultivated?
Your eyes will melt. They were born exactly because other online places did kick them out: they are quite often the cesspool of humanity, where you can find all the worst stuff you can imagine. I encourage you to read about Fredrick Brennan, the creator of 8chan: Fredrick Brennan - Wikipedia

Maybe this is a generation gap: I understand people here are US-based, in their 50-60s, and of course we have a very different experience of Internet (and the life in general).
I just think (with a 20 year online experience on my belt) that platforms and software are very, very important, but nothing can fix how people communicate if people don't want to fix it themselves.
Even this tiny forum is moderated! If I were to insult everyone and make rape jokes about your families I'd be rightly blocked and banned in an instant.

Nobody really knows what Elon will do with Twitter, and I'm in favor of some ideas he mentioned.
But the "free speech" part gives me pause for the reasons I tried to outline.

I think you missed the point. Elon doesn't need to be the final arbiter of truth in order to fix the communication platform for the better. It's misguided to think anyone can arbitrate the truth of complex things or that that's what's required to vastly improve Twitter and reduce the incidence of false news going viral. Exactly how this will be done is beyond the scope of this forum. I would just suggest that the platform exerting more top-down control is not the answer when there are so many other levers to pull to nudge things in a more productive direction.

I am not part of any 50-60 year old Internet generation gap you think exists. I'm 58 years old and was on the original ARPANET before the Internet even existed back in the 1970's. I was also a computer bulletin board user of sites that hosted forums much like this one in the early 1980's. I participated in an early electric car forum back in the early/mid 1990's (pretty sure there was some participation by people instrumental in Tesla management). I had a smartphone with a color touchscreen that could download and play videos and music as well as hundreds of apps for almost any purpose from the Internet many years before the first iPhone hit the market. I had the Internet in my pocket in 2000. I made my first million on the Internet before that. Social medial is nothing new to me, I just chose to not use it because of the way it typically works. I don't find it a productive tool. I think Elon can change that.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

I don’t know what to expect. Trump retweeted a tweet a number of times about “a good democrat is a dead democrat”. Will that now be acceptable?

No. It's the easiest thing in the world to filter out with an open source algo.

 

[bobfunn]

CNBS Article talking Elon's twitter purchase and about the risks of CEO's borrowing against shares.

 

[StealthP3D]

Additionally we have heard from former Tesla employees that the options vest based on the lowest TSLA price in the quarter.

I think this policy is brilliant because I bet it helps employees remain calmer with whipsawing prices because a big temporary dip actually helps them.

That means all new employees at the latest two factories are going to watch the value of their options package do the "magic climb" as they vest over the next two years or so. This will be extremely good for employee retention going forward. They will see the value of sticking around and becoming experts at what they do. The UAW won't be able to touch them because they will continue to be the highest paid autoworkers (probably in the world).

 

[ZenRockGarden]

No. It's the easiest thing in the world to filter out with an open source algo.

I think you missed the point that it was Elon, the guy who will be in charge of defining what's allowed, who was re-tweeting that...

There's no good outcome of this new effort (and I'm a Tesla owner and fan - I just think Elon's a terrible choice to lead Twitter)

You either get:

Elon defining his personal agenda as what's right/wrong since he's been more than happy to say/retweet awful things himself, and at the same time get those he disagreed with banned.

or

Elon follows thru on his claimed "free speech absolutism" at which point Twitter turns into 4chan...

the only good news is TSLA will print money relentlessly no matter how messed up the TWTR situation becomes.

 

[OrthoSurg]

Maybe I can help you understand this. Yes, people are stupid and gullible and Elon's not going to fix that by buying Twitter. But it's normal for people to be stupid and gullible - it's a human trait because we are not as smart as many of us think we are. This has always been the case.

The really big problem facing humanity right now, the newest problem since we became aware of global climate issues, is that the tools people use to communicate with each other are amplifying their stupidity, hatred and ignorance and threatening to bring down all that is otherwise normally good about democracy and even capitalism itself. These communication platforms have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to amplify stupidity, hate and ignorance. Elon cannot prevent stupidity, hate and ignorance from existing, but he can reconfigure the communication platforms so they do not amplify the very things that are threatening humanity. This could change the trajectory of human civilization for the better and it's something that can be done without taking sides with liberals or conservatives.

It can be done while respecting people's right to speak their minds. It can be done while using open-source code and transparent rules instead of current rules that are hidden, mysterious and opaque. The current platforms are broken and they need fixing. And it is urgent if Elon is to carry out his other missions. That is why I say there is a strong synergy between the mission statement of Tesla and fixing social media. The only way to fix the biggest problems facing humanity is for all people to come together and that is currently not possible given the way information is disseminated and analyzed in the current state of reality.

Elon is about to write the next amendment to the US constitution. The right to free code.

 

[StealthP3D]

CNBS Article talking Elon's twitter purchase and about the risks of CEO's borrowing against shares.

That just means they are not done trying to wind this spring tighter! At some point the spring tension is released and it will propel us to new levels not yet seen. I've watched this game be played before but never in such an obvious and dramatic fashion. Can you handle the spring tension?

Remember, if you want to play with the big dogs you have to learn how to pee in the tall grass!

Everyone else can mope and cry and identify themselves as someone who doesn't know how to play the game.