Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Ogre]

I say it again - as long as we lock the TESLA PLUG to be THE STANDARD I am good with opening the chargers. No need for another several iterations. Remember USB nightmare?

Officially CCS is the "Standard", but it will be added to Tesla chargers in the form of the Magic Dock and won't affect Tesla drivers a bit so we side-step USB C Micro-B and similar nonsense.

I'm super curious to see if other makers adopt the Tesla Charger at this point. If only 60-70% of Tesla chargers support CCS, seems like a maker could step things up a bit by adding built in NACS support for maximum coverage.

 

[Curt Renz]

Barron's - 11:36 am EST
Ford Can’t Catch Tesla on Costs. That’s Why the CEO Reimagined the Company.

Excerpt:

...Could Ford, or others, build EVs as efficiently as the EV leader? The answer was an overwhelming no: 92% of respondents said traditional auto makers won't catch Tesla.

Farley agreed. "I'm in the 92% camp," he told Lache. That sounds almost defeatist, especially coming from the second-largest EV maker in the U.S. Ford delivered almost 62,000 EVs in 2022, while Tesla delivered about 522,000...

 

[DarthPierce]

• .... If you stick to the interstate highways then Tesla has you covered pretty much nationwide except Alaska. Off the interstates, much less coverage....

I, for one, am hoping that superchargers in Alaska (and along at least 1 of the 2 routes from the lower 48 to Alaska) become a thing by the summer after receiving my Cybertruck ('24? '25?).

Driving the ALCAN and Dalton highways is something my wife and I have talked about for years - but you need something tough and reliable to do it.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Followup question... "low income in California" only? Intended to expand slowly at ground zero - is my take. Then to other states, and finally to anyone everyone - best guess.

FSD comes into play somewhere along the line and ownership morphs into community sharing. "Come live here _____, we have 10 dedicated Tesla's available 24/7 for your everyday needs." Attract home buyers, advertise it on the cars. "Live Here, Transportation Included!" Maybe...

 

[madodel]

Possibly the first Tesla Semi accident. Fortunately pretty minor scrapage while maneuvering at a congested truck stop.

How long until NHTSA launches a full scale investigation?

 

[Iain]

Followup question... "low income in California" only? Intended to expand slowly at ground zero - is my take. Then to other states, and finally to anyone everyone - best guess.

FSD comes into play somewhere along the line and ownership morphs into community sharing. "Come live here _____, we have 10 dedicated Tesla's available 24/7 for your everyday needs." Attract home buyers, advertise it on the cars. "Live Here, Transportation Included!" Maybe...

What is low income in California? I moved back to San Diego six months ago, and I'm looking to buy a home, and it's insane. I can put down about 40% on a small home in Carlsbad, I make too much money to qualify for any Tesla discount, yet my mortgage will still be over 33% of my income. California right now is EXPENSIVE to live in.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

I, for one, am hoping that superchargers in Alaska (and along at least 1 of the 2 routes from the lower 48 to Alaska) become a thing by the summer after receiving my Cybertruck ('24? '25?).

Driving the ALCAN and Dalton highways is something my wife and I have talked about for years - but you need something tough and reliable to do it.

Well, if you are going thru BC the northern highways haven’t been populated with DC fast chargers yet by BC hydro. 2025 is BC hydros target date. North of highway 16 is still a charging desert.

 

[EVMeister]

What is low income in California?

<$110K annual household income, apparently.

 

[Buckminster]

Highland:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625881709215469569

 

[wipster]

Barron's - 11:36 am EST
Ford Can’t Catch Tesla on Costs. That’s Why the CEO Reimagined the Company.

Excerpt:

...Could Ford, or others, build EVs as efficiently as the EV leader? The answer was an overwhelming no: 92% of respondents said traditional auto makers won't catch Tesla.

Farley agreed. "I'm in the 92% camp," he told Lache. That sounds almost defeatist, especially coming from the second-largest EV maker in the U.S. Ford delivered almost 62,000 EVs in 2022, while Tesla delivered about 522,000...

Thanks Curt, you beat me to the punch! It seems like Farley is the only CEO of all of the OEM's that "gets it." Also understands that it will take years and sufficient volume to show a profit. But even then, a margin of 8% isn't going to cut it compared to Tesla... but it's a good start! I wish him well.

After watching Connecting The Dots' video last week about what he thinks Project Highland is all about (highly recommended watch), it's interesting that Elon appears to have studied Henry Ford's approach to designing and building cars while Farley, the current CEO of Ford, has studied Elon and Tesla's approach. A classic example of what goes around comes around...

 

[SOULPEDL]

What is low income in California? I moved back to San Diego six months ago, and I'm looking to buy a home, and it's insane. I can put down about 40% on a small home in Carlsbad, I make too much money to qualify for any Tesla discount, yet my mortgage will still be over 33% of my income. California right now is EXPENSIVE to live in.

Exactly (and my point). However, many for example can only afford to live in Sacremento but work in San Francisco (Bob for one).

OT... You could go the homeless shelter route, apply and get a Section 8 free ride from the Feds. Millions (unverified) of people are living well off now this way in the US. Housing shoe has not yet dropped with many still living for free. The program could be an effort to satisfy agreements at the UN level - Housing is a Human Right. I know someone on this Fed program, Getting $2K/month for the apt + spending + free utilities + food stamps, and can make up to $2K/mo part-time. So he doesn't have to work. They're gonna have to kick these squatters out (paying no rent) sooner or later. It's a problem.

 

[Knightshade]

I can't verify if this is true - $25,000 Tesla for low income in California (USA)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625881192711987202

Curious what the math is here.

Lowest priced Tesla is the RWD model 3 at $42,990

Fed rebate is $7500.... CA CVRP is $2000... so $9500 off comes to $33,490.

Where is Omar imagining the other $8490 off comes from?


AFAIK the "cheapest" Model 3 would be in Oregon, not California... and only if you fit in a very narrow "low" income band that still made enough to qualify for the full fed credit... if you do you'd get $7500 fed and $7500 state, for a net price of $27,990.... incredible deal but still not 25k and the band where you could get both is quite narrow... OR income for 1 maxes at just over 58k, just under 79k for two.

 

[Gigapress]

Followup question... "low income in California" only? Intended to expand slowly at ground zero - is my take. Then to other states, and finally to anyone everyone - best guess.

Probably not intended to expand because this is a state-funded program as part of California law. Other states would have to independently decide to copy what CA has done here.

 

[Ogre]

Highland:

Sawyer Merrit on Twitter
NEWS: Tesla will suspend some production until the end of February as it upgrades the facility to make a refreshed version of the Model 3 compact sedan, Bloomberg News reported.

Umm... timing here is not exactly shocking.

 

[Gigapress]

Curious what the math is here.

Lowest priced Tesla is the RWD model 3 at $42,990

Fed rebate is $7500.... CA CVRP is $2000... so $9500 off comes to $33,490.

Where is Omar imagining the other $8490 off comes from?


AFAIK the "cheapest" Model 3 would be in Oregon, not California... and only if you fit in a very narrow "low" income band that still made enough to qualify for the full fed credit... if you do you'd get $7500 fed and $7500 state, for a net price of $27,990.... incredible deal but still not 25k.

Yeah I’m pretty sure $25k is wrong.

You’re right that the actual California rebate is $2k for 3/Y, per the website, and the same for almost all other BEVs. It looks like $7k is the max incentive allowed by the program but not for most clean vehicle models. So that actual net price is $33.5k. Also there’s a destination and order fee of about $1.5k taking the true total to ~$35k. That’s still an amazing price especially for California with its extra-high gas and maintenance costs for ICEVs, but it’s not $25k.

 

[JRP3]

Curious what the math is here.

Lowest priced Tesla is the RWD model 3 at $42,990

Fed rebate is $7500.... CA CVRP is $2000... so $9500 off comes to $33,490.

Where is Omar imagining the other $8490 off comes from?


AFAIK the "cheapest" Model 3 would be in Oregon, not California... and only if you fit in a very narrow "low" income band that still made enough to qualify for the full fed credit... if you do you'd get $7500 fed and $7500 state, for a net price of $27,990.... incredible deal but still not 25k.

His math seems a bit off but CA increased the rebate

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625716931759329280

 

[Skryll]

Curious what the math is here.

Lowest priced Tesla is the RWD model 3 at $42,990

Fed rebate is $7500.... CA CVRP is $2000... so $9500 off comes to $33,490.

Where is Omar imagining the other $8490 off comes from?


AFAIK the "cheapest" Model 3 would be in Oregon, not California... and only if you fit in a very narrow "low" income band that still made enough to qualify for the full fed credit... if you do you'd get $7500 fed and $7500 state, for a net price of $27,990.... incredible deal but still not 25k.

Eligibility - Clean Vehicle Assistance Program up to $5k grant, income cap scales with number of dependents, i.e. single is like $55k income cap, 2 adults 2 children $106k joint income cap. Also up to $2k grant for charger install, so that would be about $7k in the extreme case where your installer charges you $2k. https://cleanvehiclegrants.org/wp-c...CVAP-Charging-Grant-Guidelines-April-2022.pdf Wonder if this is in addition to Savings Calculator | Clean Vehicle Rebate Project

 

[SOULPEDL]

Probably not intended to expand because this is a state-funded program as part of California law. Other states would have to independently decide to copy what CA has done here.

Thanks, I couldn't read the article, pay-walled again.
But sounds like Oregon is discount central.
Meanwhile, Az... we get the HOV lane is all. (That's to make up for all the Solar they're not doing. /s)

 

[FireMedic]

Yeah I’m pretty sure $25k is wrong.

You’re right that the actual California rebate is $2k for 3/Y, per the website, and the same for almost all other BEVs. It looks like $7k is the max incentive allowed by the program but not for most clean vehicle models. So that actual net price is $33.5k. Also there’s a destination and order fee of about $1.5k taking the true total to ~$35k. That’s still an amazing price especially for California with its extra-high gas and maintenance costs for ICEVs, but it’s not $25k.

To be fair. Our electricity AND gas prices are very high here in Cali (at least the Bay Area). I have some commuter friends who came from Prius or other high efficiency ICE who haven’t seen much savings from fuel. I personally pay $.28 per kWh of peak! That’s why I have an embarrassing amount of solar.

That said, they still LOVE their Teslas.

 

[SOULPEDL]

His math seems a bit off but CA increased the rebate

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625716931759329280

Lol, 400% poverty line is the new poverty line. It's about right...