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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Hello!

My name is Giovanni from Tesla.
In the past you've had an order with us.
With prices dropped, and inventory available.
Were you interested in taking delivery of a new Model S/X vehicle?
I look forward to your response.


Lol 😆... I just received this text from a Tesla rep.
(I removed his last name as a courtesy)

Ok, which one of you told Tesla to text me ??? @wipster ... @scaesare ...????

Love it!
 
Are you sure you're up to date:
Deposit-increase.png


This deposit policy change has been in effect for awhile in Canada and U.S. as far as I can tell. When I last talked to Tesla about it, the sales associate referred to it as an "order fee", not a "deposit". The fee is extra to the amount paid on delivery.
My 'deposit' on my Model Y is nonrefundable, but on the Cybertruck it still is fully refundable (screenshot taken just now from Tesla Canada's site).
 

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Hello!

My name is Giovanni from Tesla.
In the past you've had an order with us.
With prices dropped, and inventory available.
Were you interested in taking delivery of a new Model S/X vehicle?
I look forward to your response.


Lol 😆... I just received this text from a Tesla rep.
(I removed his last name as a courtesy)

Ok, which one of you told Tesla to text me ??? @wipster ... @scaesare ...????

Love it!
Hey, it wasn't me! Damn, Tesla is starting to act like a... gasp... Dealership!!!
 
Are you sure you're up to date:
This deposit policy change has been in effect for awhile in Canada and U.S. as far as I can tell. When I last talked to Tesla about it, the sales associate referred to it as an "order fee", not a "deposit". The fee is extra to the amount paid on delivery.

I was referring to the Cybertruck. Regardless, either way, deposit isn’t booked as revenue until car is delivered.
 
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People keep using the phrase "at the current burn rate" when discussing both Lucid and Rivian, but these companies will not burning at the current rate for a long time. The burn rate will come down, and their increased revenue will offset and soften the cash burn. Tesla also went through this when they were ramping up Giga Nevada.

So far they’ve demonstrated that their only real skill in terms of finance is in separating the IPO buying public from their cash.

Rivans look nice. Everyone I know of who owns one (save the Now You Know Guys) loves it. But making trucks for more than it costs to sell is not a way to run a business. Likewise, they do not manage expenses well.

In spite of the many claims that they are “Just Like Tesla”, this simply is not true. Look at their earnings statements and compare them to when Tesla was a $20b company. Look at how they compare to when Tesla was selling 20,000 vehicles a year. There is no point in Tesla’s history where they were burning cash the way Rivian does.
 
Hey, it wasn't me! Damn, Tesla is starting to act like a... gasp... Dealership!!!
I don’t think this is that unusual. We ordered our X in mid 2021. They reached out in Dec 21 to offer us an inventory S so we could beat the introduction of the Luxury Tax in Canada (win for us) and move some inventory before the end of the quarter (win for them). I appreciated the gesture but we wanted the X for towing duties so the S wasn’t a fit for us.

Then in late summer 2022 they reached out again offering an X Plaid instead of the LR we’d ordered. Declined that offer too but let them know we’d happily take red or blue instead of the white exterior and we’d accept white interior instead of cream if that would help. They said they’d note it on my file. Well a few weeks before our delivery window they again texted asking if we’d accept a blue/white LR Model X as someone’s financing had fallen through. We finally accepted their offer and got our X just before Christmas.

Any way, long story just to relate that in our case they reached out with three offers and we accepted the third and got our vehicle slightly ahead of schedule. I’m sure they’re often doing these things to manage inventory when it makes sense.
 
There are self-healing wraps similar to this self-healing PPF:-



The point on the color range is valid, but I think the range of colors could be extended via additional semi-clear layers

Simplest of all would be a top clear layer with the option of gloss or matt, with matt being slightly less transparent and darkening the underlying color.

Beside that top coat option Tesla might not support many more colors than they do with paint, the customer always has the option of a bare metal car and getting painting / wrapping done by a 3rd-party.

IMO if Tesla goes down the route of using wraps rather than paint, the car body metal is good enough to drive around without any surface covering. The different options merely decide how good that "bare metal" car looks and what it costs. I would go with the cheapest bare metal car, and wrap it, a single matt top wrap might be enough to make the bare metal car look slightly better.

It is possibly a step forward on today where cars are painted even when the customer intends to wrap them

Obviously Tesla has to test how long the wraps last, how good any "self healing" technology is, and seek to improve those areas.

Managing inventory is more challenging, even if the number of color combinations is only 2X today, but these cars will be made and sold in higher volumes. Inventory misallocations happen for all sorts of reasons and are usually temporary.
Forget about self-healing wraps, fancy stainless steel, aluminum, thermoplastics, fiberglass etc. The answer is- Adobe!

 
Was just watching this Shanghai GF walkthrough video made by Chinese state media, and at 19:35 the news anchor just said “now we are seeing Giga 2, not just the Giga 1”, when she was boasting “Shanghai had helped Tesla in many ways…”

Wait, have we confirmed the SECOND GF in Shanghai?
What will that be making?
Has Tesla officially announced that?
Where exactly is it?
When are they building it and when will it start production?
I have so many questions…
 
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Was just watching this Shanghai GF walkthrough video made by Chinese state media, and at 19:35 the news anchor just said “now we are seeing Giga 2, not just the Giga 1”, when she was boasting “Shanghai had helped Tesla in many ways…”

Wait, have we confirmed the SECOND GF in Shanghai?
What will that be making?
Has Tesla officially announced that?
Where exactly is it?
When are they building it and when will it start production?
I have so many questions…
I believe she was referring to the Model Y component of Shanghai as Giga 2, which would make the original Model 3 section Giga 1. I suppose the use of Giga 3 to describe Shanghai isn't that widely used in some circles. Giga 1 and 2 used to be used to refer to Nevada and New York a lot more a few years ago (Fremont was always just Fremont). I still see Berlin referred to as Giga 4 but I don't see any references to Texas as Giga 5 etc.
 
So far they’ve demonstrated that their only real skill in terms of finance is in separating the IPO buying public from their cash.

Rivans look nice. Everyone I know of who owns one (save the Now You Know Guys) loves it. But making trucks for more than it costs to sell is not a way to run a business. Likewise, they do not manage expenses well.

In spite of the many claims that they are “Just Like Tesla”, this simply is not true. Look at their earnings statements and compare them to when Tesla was a $20b company. Look at how they compare to when Tesla was selling 20,000 vehicles a year. There is no point in Tesla’s history where they were burning cash the way Rivian does.

Tesla would have headed exactly the same way as Rivian if Elon did not fire Eberhard and Tesla sold the initial Roadster at the original promised price around 125k at a loss instead of 200k+.

Rivian would need a Time Machine to go back in 2000 and sell the first electric pick up truck at 200k to turn a profit. But nobody would pay that today. Unless of course you are not Lucid enough and live in a Dream but of course that’s another Edition.
 
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The answer lies in the EU deliveries page maintained by @hobbes - so far European deliveries running around 2x 2022


Thanks for the mention! Got to add that @Troy set up all the google spreadsheets this is working on and has put way more work into that than I have. Also, quite a few forum members help with the data collection, you can see their names below the table.
 
Tesla would have headed exactly the same way as Rivian if Elon did not fire Eberhard and Tesla sold the initial Roadster at the original promised price around 125k at a loss instead of 200k+.
Original Roadster pricing was $99K, then was increased to $109K and then went up to around $125K for the last version I think.
 
Whats the general consensus here on European inventory levels and what it means for demand here? I follow troy on twitter and he seems to be suggesting a big build-up of inventory that cant be sold in Europe. I doubt its actually that bad, and we all know that Q1 is the worst quarter in general, but I don't want to blindly ignore any such warnings.
The Ultra-sonic sensor debacle has certainly not helped sentiment here in the UK, but I suspect that this is just a short term issue (where on earth is the teslavision update?) and I doubt its going to be *that* big an impact on demand?

When I scan ahead for decent potential catalysts for the stock I am currently focused on:

1) FSD version 11 general rollout
2) Uptick in tesla Energy income/profit for Q1
3) First production Cybertrucks
4) First proper semi production at scale.

I also think we might get a sudden announcement regarding indonesia. At some point I expected a major 'financial event' for either Lucid or Rivian, which will make people realize how hard it is to compete with Tesla. That could happen any day! (assuming Saudis/Amazon don't keep piling money in blindly).

Right now the ONLY negative in my evaluation is the USS/Europe demand question. Would love to be put right by people who are knee-deep in the figures!
 
As we think of Tesla's nest moves we all seem to think of cars, pickups and Semi.
As Tesla expands around the world it is useful, perhaps, to see how the BYD process works, closely analogous to how many Chinese firms work.

Just one example, here is their timeline in Brazil, very much the same elsewhere:
Capsule:
First, they invariably build busses or trucks, so they can support infrastructure in charging and service on a route-specific basis and demonstrate BEV advantages;
Second, or 1A, they supply taxi and other commercial vehicles, still with support attached;
Third, they build battery factories and assembly plants;
Fourth, they begin to sell cars and negotiate to build auto plants.

That model is far different than is Tesla, obviously. It is also very patient and long term.
BYD, Chery, JAC, CATL, State Grid and more all move in similar manner, with State Grid particularly important is establishing infrastructure.

Tesla has fairly minimal US support in any strategic way, except in China, perhaps. Tesla also chose top down, not bottom up, primarily because they did not have strategic support. When we, as Tesla investors view these others we tend to see them as inferior mirrors of Tesla. That is a myopic view, but understandable.

Tesla has all the advantages and strengths we document so well. Tesla also has no real experience with utility vehicles, which has not been an impediment.

Tesla has had success with public utility services from Grid Services to Stationary Storage, but has thus far sacrificed that market to better needs for cars. Perhaps the single most effective product for Tesla has been Supercharger, but most fo us see that as a service to encourage Tesla sales and support.

If going back to the BYD case fro a moment, and the other Chinese examples, we can see the one thing they've not done is blanket their nascent market with chargers; not needed since they begin with commercial route-based markets...

And we then see the Tesla advantage in structural rather than only production excellence and technology. It si Tesla that built Superchargers to allow people to drive their cars to the Mount Everest base camp. Some of us probably remember those videos. That accomplishment galvanized substantial favorable image. Still, most of us really miss the huge marketing benefit of Superchargers.

We think of market potential around the world and remark a given place has no opportunity because of the paucity of charging. True. Then think of California in 2014. Even more than the cars themselves, wonderful though they are, the Supercharger network sells Tesla where it seems to be too expensive and impractical.

Rather than write off any given markets it might be better to assess how much Supercharger capacity would be needed to service the market, how much stationary storage and solar capacity could defray the operating cost, and only then conclude viability. At that point government incentives and impediments become relevant, remembering that the Chinese tactics of beginning with labor intense and high visible benefits end out being productive.

FWIW, BYD has had a letter of intent to buy the Ford 300,000 unit capacity plant in Bahia fro nearly a year. The new Brazilian President is pushing hard for that one. We still do not have any official word on Tesla raw materials sourcing, but that is also high on Lula's list of desires.

When we link support infrastructure, industrial investment (in anything) and good employment prospects many otherwise less interesting markets suddenly become attractive.

These subjects are very familiar to Tom Zhu, Elon Musk and several others. They'll not always tell su everything. Just look at the two covered vehicles on Investor Day, then think how many of us decided they were one thing or another without any information. What if everyone might be correct? What if it is a highly versatile 'platform', Tesla-style rather than, say, VW-style?

Is Tesla learning from the China examples? Morocco Superchargers but no sales; is that one only a tourist play?
 
Right now the ONLY negative in my evaluation is the USS/Europe demand question. Would love to be put right by people who are knee-deep in the figures!


I am by no means knee deep in the figures but I share your worry.

I stumbled across this scrape site:


The person that build it has a TMC account and the site looks be working okay, his TMC handle can be found on the bottom of the site.

Inventory per this site gives a little over 1K new and unsold vehicles, a lot still on ships due to arrive I think.

Last week it was at 1.3K so trending down.

IIRC Troy thinks that inventory is actually five times higher then this because of doubles not being shown.