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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I've completely lost any faith and respect for European car manufacturers: not only have they proven to be lazy and shortsighted, but now European consumers will have to pay for their laziness and unprofessionalism. A simple example: many of my friends who live in Europe, when their companies offer them a choice of cars as a company vehicle, are "forced" to choose from a list of brands that never includes Tesla. In the end, most of them buy Volkswagens/Mercedes, and in some companies, even Kia is offered. Needless to say, when I ask them what they would choose if Tesla was on the list, the answer is ALWAYS in favor of Tesla. And the funniest thing is that the cars they are offered to buy are more expensive than similar models from Tesla. This should be disadvantageous for the companies that buy them ))) The underdeveloped network of DC chargers is also no match for Tesla's Supercharger network.
 
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I've completely lost any faith and respect for European car manufacturers: not only have they proven to be lazy and shortsighted, but now European consumers will have to pay for their laziness and unprofessionalism. A simple example: many of my friends who live in Europe, when their companies offer them a choice of cars as a company vehicle, are "forced" to choose from a list of brands that never includes Tesla. In the end, most of them buy Volkswagens/Mercedes, and in some companies, even Kia is offered. Needless to say, when I ask them what they would choose if Tesla was on the list, the answer is ALWAYS in favor of Tesla. And the funniest thing is that the cars they are offered to buy are more expensive than similar models from Tesla. This should be disadvantageous for the companies that buy them ))) The underdeveloped network of DC chargers is also no match for Tesla's Supercharger network.
Shouldn't we blame the employers more than the auto-manufacturers? And what is Tesla trying the convince these employers to buy Tesla as company cars?
 
I've completely lost any faith and respect for European car manufacturers: not only have they proven to be lazy and shortsighted, but now European consumers will have to pay for their laziness and unprofessionalism. A simple example: many of my friends who live in Europe, when their companies offer them a choice of cars as a company vehicle, are "forced" to choose from a list of brands that never includes Tesla. In the end, most of them buy Volkswagens/Mercedes, and in some companies, even Kia is offered. Needless to say, when I ask them what they would choose if Tesla was on the list, the answer is ALWAYS in favor of Tesla. And the funniest thing is that the cars they are offered to buy are more expensive than similar models from Tesla. This should be disadvantageous for the companies that buy them ))) The underdeveloped network of DC chargers is also no match for Tesla's Supercharger network.

Yeah the main problem is that Legacy auto offers big discounts to the leasing companies, or idiotic residual value.

This is, of course, not a sustainable strategy. There are plenty of leasing companies that offer Tesla’s however, it just depends on which one your company has a contract with.
 
Yeah the main problem is that Legacy auto offers big discounts to the leasing companies, or idiotic residual value.

This is, of course, not a sustainable strategy. There are plenty of leasing companies that offer Tesla’s however, it just depends on which one your company has a contract with.
I've heard the same. Just one year ago one leasing company wasn't able to offer a Model 3 for a department head position who is driving a Mercedes E-Class, Audi Q5, BMW 520 or similar in the past. Just too expensive in comparison to an offer from one of the three: "TESLA is not doing enough for us". Be careful with enduser prices via company cars in Germany.
I love to be a TSLA investor and TESLA owner in Germany.
 
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I've completely lost any faith and respect for European car manufacturers: not only have they proven to be lazy and shortsighted, but now European consumers will have to pay for their laziness and unprofessionalism. A simple example: many of my friends who live in Europe, when their companies offer them a choice of cars as a company vehicle, are "forced" to choose from a list of brands that never includes Tesla. In the end, most of them buy Volkswagens/Mercedes, and in some companies, even Kia is offered. Needless to say, when I ask them what they would choose if Tesla was on the list, the answer is ALWAYS in favor of Tesla. And the funniest thing is that the cars they are offered to buy are more expensive than similar models from Tesla. This should be disadvantageous for the companies that buy them ))) The underdeveloped network of DC chargers is also no match for Tesla's Supercharger network.
I agree with you that European manufacturers have proven lazy and shortsighted, but so have American and Japanese ditto too.

But the reason that your European friends are forced to drive overpriced junk is squarely the employers' fault. Sometimes companies are just plain incompetent buyers and sometimes they have to buy/lease worse and more expensive products a perverse result of consolidation or reduction of the supply base.
For those who haven't been involved with it; this is how this works: Purchasing departments are tasked with lowering cost. How do you measure purchasing cost in a huge corporation that need to buy things that aren't constant and thus can't be compared to the prior year? You work with cost drivers and ratios, which are put in the VP of buying, sourcing, purchasing's scoreboard. The number of suppliers is one such cost driver. Want to introduce yet another dealer (Tesla) for the company fleet? Very hard.
 
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The number of suppliers is one such cost driver. Want to introduce yet another dealer (Tesla) for the company fleet? Very hard.
Most companies (wrt EU company cars) don’t deal directly with different car manufacturers/dealer. They let lease companies deal with all the practicalities of handling their cars. The way it works is that employees get to choose a car of their liking from an approved car list. The car must be below a certain lease budget since that budget is a form of wage. Most companies typically allow their employees to go somewhat above budget, but this part needs to be payed by the employee.
From what I hear in the various local Tesla FB groups, the different lease companies have different pain points (some more, some less) dealing with Tesla, but it seems that this is improving since Tesla’s are becoming very common as company cars.
Some of the pain points are caused by Tesla:
- ‘the price is the price for everybody’: lack of volume discounts for large buyers, Tesla refusing to give a price guarantee for cars with long delivery times. KBC Lease last year was rumoured to have stopped offering Tesla leases because Tesla wouldn’t guarantee the price. This is probably not much of a problem anymore because the pricing and delivery times are going down instead of up.
- communication around delivery appointments. During the EOQ wave lots of customers get needless stress because the extra party involved (the lease company) and the typically very short delivery notices cause missed appointments and missed promises. With the wave ending this should also become less of an issue.
 
We still have our 2018 Model 3 RWD for long distance travel; Superchargers are so much better than anything else. The ID.4 will primarily be for trips closer to home (and will provide some first hand experience with how the drivers of non-Tesla EV's deal with charging). 🙂
Honestly, everything else aside, I'd hate having to deal with 2 different car interfaces - inside, outside, parts, accessories, and all.

We always had 2 of the same cars with different colors. Just get inside and drive. I also had done my own maintenance it it was 1/2 the work.
 
I have been reading a lot of fuzz about Tesla's needs for ads.

The more I think about it, the less it makes sense.

Don't get me wrong, I am actually in the camp of Tesla doing some informercial to promote EV and killing some FUDs.
However, I don't think ads are an effective way to spend money right now.

Before they spend a few hundred million on a marketing budget, they can spend that on smaller Gigas (Megas?!) to serve some specific markets where tariff makes EVs very expensive. From an investor perspective, I think it makes more sense. Tesla has more demand than what it can cater. The only people not buying Tesla is because it's not within their budget.

Yes, I get that Model Y/3 are now either in line or below the average selling price of a vehicle. But we need to see the bigger picture. It's not about just those "rich" in highly developed economies like US/CA/EU/CN... etc. It's about those who need/want a car but can't afford a Tesla. If there's a Tesla in 2x,000 or even 1x,000 range, it will cater to an entirely different market segment.

Put it into a perspective, everyone would love to have a Rolex... but it's Casio and Swatch that sell the most watches. Heck... even a no-name watch factory in China probably ships more watch that PP and Rolex combined.

And as for bringing more awareness... seriously... Elon dropped 44 billion to buy Twitter. If that's not big enough of an advertisement expense and brand awareness, I don't know what is. Tesla is synonymous to EVs. And everyone who uses Twitter, who became aware that Elon bought Twitter, will surely know or become aware about Tesla.
The Apple Watch was the best selling watch in the world, back in 2017:
.https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/12/apple-watch-is-now-the-number-one-watch-in-the-world.html

As for advertising the traditional broadcast and print advertising are no longer dominant in any market apart from TV geriatric-targeting products. Tesla has from the beginning mastered 21st century techniques of promotion, eschewing the old ones. Somehow every few days people come up here arguing for those obsolete expensive generic advertising. Of course generic awareness and unaided recall are important, so Tesla has near 100% awareness and unaided recall even in countries they do not service at all. Intention to buy among prospective BEV buyers and home solar is very high too.

Bluntly it is absurd to suggest Tesla should waste money on any such devices. As John Wanamaker famously said more than a century ago, "I know I waste half my advertising budget, the problem is I don't know which half". Now in the 21st century we no longer need waste the half. Now there are highly specific promotional techniques, and Tesla uses them masterfully.

Right now Tesla needs only to produce more of all products, while allowing other manufacturers and media to ensure every potential buyer knows what is happening. In reality even the FUD tells potential BEV and storage products that competitors are terrified, so generates attraction that can be accelerated or deferred by pricing changes and/or increased Point of Sale supply when that is possible.

Why, I wonder, is it so difficult for many of us to understand these things? After all it is now a decade and Tesla has long since understood that:
... charging infrastructure sells cars, especially accentuated when that is opened to non-Tesla vehicles. Seriously, driving Teslas with Superchargers all the way from urban China to Mount Everest Base camp; driving from inside the Norwegian Arctic Circle to your choice of Ankara or Marrakesh and so on...Those generate gigantic PR without any marginal cost to Tesla, PR that nobody else can match.
...awareness of technical features sells cars, specifically all the children who wax rhapsodic over games, strange fart noises, and clever graphics. Do children make their parents buy cars? Cost to generate those future sales and foment wildly favorable attitudes, nearly zero, after all this is paid for by customers.

The list goes on, but many fo us do not see that Tesla wins the five P's of Marketing:
- Product: we all know that one;
-Positioning: by now we know about Plaid, Games, Falcon Wing Doors;
-Placement: no dealers, buy online or at a store with fixed price, all those Superchargers, Destination chargers, do not sell where you have not put Superchargers.
-Promotion: This is Tesla's cleverest trick. New Superchargers generate free publicity, those clever Positioning choices generate enormous word of mouth, among opponents, children fo all ages and buyers.
Price: Nearly all of us seem convinced price is the best tool. Why is Apple Watch best selling watch? Why do Wheaties outsell store brand Wheat Flakes? Why does Starbucks outsell Marcelo's Coffee? For that matter why is LVMH controlled by the world's richest man when all his products are more expensive than many others, and Tesla's CEO the second richest? Neither happened because they view low price as the key to sales. Both understand that Price is a crucial tool, promotional pricing can move inventory timing, careful Placement allows using Price techniques to reach otherwise unreachable markets. LVMH uses judicial product through entities like TJ Maxx, plus an inordinate placement with Duty Free shops.
Tesla is much quieter about their solutions, they sell unwanted trades and damaged products through wholesalers (just like LVMH, by the way). They have end of quarter promotions that generate outsized attention, not least from virulent criticism, that acts to increase sales. That last point is shared with LVMH when they let some excess Fendi or Christian Dior appear on discounters shelves, or Moët & Chandon Dom Perignon shows up with a duty free special.

The pricing strategies that employ those tactics are quite tricky.LVMH is one of the most adept, but Tesla is quite clever too. They regularly clear out inventory when they're ready to make a major improvement, they regularly use added inducements like free Supercharging and/or added features without charge.

The the end Tesla simply does not waste money on conventional wisdom like dealers, mandatory service intervals, or conventional industry incentives. Much less the advertising that really has no tangible benefit apart from making them look like every low margin OEM.
 
I agree with you that European manufacturers have proven lazy and shortsighted, but so have American and Japanese ditto too.

But the reason that your European friends are forced to drive overpriced junk is squarely the employers' fault. Sometimes companies are just plain incompetent buyers and sometimes they have to buy/lease worse and more expensive products a perverse result of consolidation or reduction of the supply base.
For those who haven't been involved with it; this is how this works: Purchasing departments are tasked with lowering cost. How do you measure purchasing cost in a huge corporation that need to buy things that aren't constant and thus can't be compared to the prior year? You work with cost drivers and ratios, which are put in the VP of buying, sourcing, purchasing's scoreboard. The number of suppliers is one such cost driver. Want to introduce yet another dealer (Tesla) for the company fleet? Very hard.
BS. Take the most expensive supplier off the list, add Tesla. Now you have the same number of suppliers and actually reduced cost by eliminating the most expensive to own and operate.

I’ll agree that the people working in purchasing might just not be any good at their jobs. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out upfront costs and running/maintenance costs of various vehicles. Just takes a little time.

They’re all in cahoots with each other and have been for decades. Tesla simply doesn’t play the game, doesn’t have to and one day everyone else will figure that out.
 
Sigma Lithium to start production 'within days' after Brazilian approval | Reuters

This is much more PR than it is really a major change since they already had approval for the development in 2019. It is really analogous to obtaining final type approval for an airplane after all the design, production and testing have been completed and accepted.
Sigma's field already had a half dozen producing pits.

That said, it still is nice to see.
 
......
Put it into a perspective, everyone would love to have a Rolex... but it's Casio and Swatch that sell the most watches. Heck... even a no-name watch factory in China probably ships more watch that PP and Rolex combined.
.....
Funny you say that, but in many ways fancy analog watches are like ICE with constantly shrinking market and mind share. Eventually used only by hobbyists who don't mind the additional cost and maintenance.

My dad has a big collection of stupidly priced watches but I don't think he's bought a new one or worn them much since getting an apple watch every year (made in a watch factory in China).

I used to wear a self winding mechanical watch, then stopped using it with smartphones on the rise but now I too wear a smart watch made in China.
 
So was in London for a week at Star Wars Celebration. So jealous of London mass transit. So awesome, but thats not what I am posting about. I am seeing lots of buzz/discussion on the web about Tesla advertising. What is this all about? Why the discussion all of a sudden?
When Tesla lowers prices, everyone that's uninformed shouts "demand problem" and that Tesla should advertise. It's stupid, but there you have it. (I wouldn't be surprised if some of the outcry is by mass medial shills.)