Ditto! Mine was great too. The whole process...
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Aren't you the guy who was predicting absurd margins and earnings mid-2022 that came nowhere close to happening?
And you've already screwed up assumptions on the IRA credits. It's safer to assume prices will keep coming down to say $300 / kWh.
It's safer to simply trust Musk that margins will be like Automotive and be in the 20-30% range. Assuming 50% margins is reckless...again.
Actually, I can compare and contrast, as I have a fairly large 21.2 kW DC system installed by SolarCity end of 2016 (just as Tesla was acquiring SolarCity), and am currently helping guide my sister thru purchasing a slightly smaller 18.7 kW solar system directly from Tesla.
As both a solar energy supporter and a TSLA shareholder, I'm very glad both of you had a great experience.
That said, my anecdotal (and hence not particularly useful) experience has been different. SolarCity 2016 was excellent with high-touch and great service. Tesla 2023 could be excellent (and seems to be for you two) in the case that everything is straightforward and goes exactly to plan, but issues often arise and Tesla's ability to be responsive and take care of them is not good. More details than anyone will actually care to read are in the spoiler.
SOLARCITY 2016:
My 2016 experience with SolarCity was incredibly good - easy to contact them, and they were very quick to come onsite and get the project planning underway. Unlike many solar panel sellers, the SolarCity seller I worked with before signing the contract was both very informative and low-pressure. The direct contact 'concierge' I was assigned upon signature picked up every time I called, and was able to work thru every detail seamlessly. In my case, I wanted to re-do the underlayment under my tile roof to ensure the roof would be good for the anticipated lifespan of the solar panels, and the concierge coordinated with the roofing company I had do the work (under separate contract, of course) so that it was seamless to me. When a glitch occurred, we were able to quickly amend the contract in way good for both parties. Main panel upgrade included in the contract so I could pay to have that done at the same time (it needed done). The electricians and installers who came out were very helpful and friendly, and for a year or so after the install I'd periodically ping them w/ random questions. When Tesla installed my two Wall Connectors in late 2017, it was great seeing one of the original SolarCity electricians back to do that work.
TESLA SOLAR 2023:
My sister's 2023 Tesla solar experience has been far less stellar.
First, I do want to be clear, when everything is going exactly according to standard plan, the 2023 Tesla solar experience is pretty nice, but as soon as a bump appears things fall apart quickly. It starts out great - put in an address and typical electric bill, etc, and see a computer-generated system (based on satellite imagery) right away, with a few options to choose, and place your order! Very nice!
...Except satellite photos are old, and in her case she was getting her entire roof replaced. Getting in touch with Tesla via the chat option led to far too much asynchronous attempts to convey the differences between what that satellite photo showed and actual roof obstructions, eventually leading to emailing updated pictures to the generic [email protected] email. Setting up scheduled phone calls worked a bit better, but often it seemed as though it wasn't until 30 minutes prior to the call that all the chat messages would eventually be read.
Roof taken care of, but then some additional electrical work needed done prior to solar, and the entire solar project went on hold while she found a separate electrician and had it permitted / work done / inspected. Tesla kept pinging to see if the order could be canceled instead of kept on hold, and finally she relented and let them cancel it...roughly a week or so before the final inspection of the other work was completed. Tesla refunded the original $250 deposit, but was unable to simply reactivate the order, so they had her place a new order. Again, satellite imagery was out of date, and they could not access the plans or uploaded pictures of the roof from the prior order, so rinse and repeat the prior order frustration. Interestingly, Tesla's new design, even after sending in the pictures again, did not have panels on one side of the west dormir, even though there were panels on both sides of the dormir on the opposite side of the house. No amount of back-and-forth would resolve that; many weeks go by sending text messages and using the chat feature, and sometimes scheduling calls, but you cannot speak to someone on the design team, just the 'customer facing' rep who is not an electrician and doesn't seem to be empowered to do anything other than pass messages back and forth.
When a site inspector finally arrived on-site (approx 4 months after this saga began), he uses a drone to confirm the roof shape / dimensions, and assures that Tesla will almost certainly be able to do the panel upgrade at the same time (prior work load calc showed the house already at limit electrically and physically). However, weeks later and many periodic inquiries later, the electrical design team has somehow determined that a panel upgrade is not required (???) and passes on the message that the design team will NOT under any circumstances do any electrical panel upgrades unless the design team has determined that it is needed. Doesn't matter what the client is willing to pay...doesn't matter that the prior load calc submitted / reviewed by the city as part of the prior permit shows the ~60-year-old meter / panel cannot support solar without a panel ugprade...they simply will not do it. The Tesla site inspector who had come out even said Tesla might potentially get back into Wall Connector installations...but since then, I've heard (so far uncooberated) that Tesla is actually reducing their solar installation workforce in favor of onboarding more 3rd party electricians and installers. Tesla's current refusal to do the panel upgrade lends credence to the latter, unfortunately.
Two notes:
1. Why go thru all this effort? Several reasons: I know many people with solar, and without exception those who have solar from SolarCity and/or Tesla have all been very satisfied with the end result, and without exception those who have gotten solar from others have been very disappointed with the result (typically under-production, less-than-great electrical workmanship, very high pressure salespeople, etc). And, as a many, many, many time Tesla repeat customer, I want to believe. But at this point I am also somewhat considering how this turns out for her to be part of my investment research.
2. Why not solar roof? For myself - I really, really wanted Solar Roof - it had just been unveiled and looked amazing. However, I predicted it would take an unacceptable amount of time for me to actually be able to get Solar Roof, so I moved forward with solar panels. Given the many years which passed after my panels were installed before the first Solar Roof installation in my metro area occurred, and given the slow pace since then, it was clearly the right call for me. For my sister, the Solar Roof quote in 2023 was over 2.5 times the cost of a complete new roof + the maximum solar panels possible. Given all the circumstances, Solar Roof priced itself out, as the added value for her particular house could not even come close to justifying the 2.5x cost.
My 2016 experience with SolarCity was incredibly good - easy to contact them, and they were very quick to come onsite and get the project planning underway. Unlike many solar panel sellers, the SolarCity seller I worked with before signing the contract was both very informative and low-pressure. The direct contact 'concierge' I was assigned upon signature picked up every time I called, and was able to work thru every detail seamlessly. In my case, I wanted to re-do the underlayment under my tile roof to ensure the roof would be good for the anticipated lifespan of the solar panels, and the concierge coordinated with the roofing company I had do the work (under separate contract, of course) so that it was seamless to me. When a glitch occurred, we were able to quickly amend the contract in way good for both parties. Main panel upgrade included in the contract so I could pay to have that done at the same time (it needed done). The electricians and installers who came out were very helpful and friendly, and for a year or so after the install I'd periodically ping them w/ random questions. When Tesla installed my two Wall Connectors in late 2017, it was great seeing one of the original SolarCity electricians back to do that work.
TESLA SOLAR 2023:
My sister's 2023 Tesla solar experience has been far less stellar.
First, I do want to be clear, when everything is going exactly according to standard plan, the 2023 Tesla solar experience is pretty nice, but as soon as a bump appears things fall apart quickly. It starts out great - put in an address and typical electric bill, etc, and see a computer-generated system (based on satellite imagery) right away, with a few options to choose, and place your order! Very nice!
...Except satellite photos are old, and in her case she was getting her entire roof replaced. Getting in touch with Tesla via the chat option led to far too much asynchronous attempts to convey the differences between what that satellite photo showed and actual roof obstructions, eventually leading to emailing updated pictures to the generic [email protected] email. Setting up scheduled phone calls worked a bit better, but often it seemed as though it wasn't until 30 minutes prior to the call that all the chat messages would eventually be read.
Roof taken care of, but then some additional electrical work needed done prior to solar, and the entire solar project went on hold while she found a separate electrician and had it permitted / work done / inspected. Tesla kept pinging to see if the order could be canceled instead of kept on hold, and finally she relented and let them cancel it...roughly a week or so before the final inspection of the other work was completed. Tesla refunded the original $250 deposit, but was unable to simply reactivate the order, so they had her place a new order. Again, satellite imagery was out of date, and they could not access the plans or uploaded pictures of the roof from the prior order, so rinse and repeat the prior order frustration. Interestingly, Tesla's new design, even after sending in the pictures again, did not have panels on one side of the west dormir, even though there were panels on both sides of the dormir on the opposite side of the house. No amount of back-and-forth would resolve that; many weeks go by sending text messages and using the chat feature, and sometimes scheduling calls, but you cannot speak to someone on the design team, just the 'customer facing' rep who is not an electrician and doesn't seem to be empowered to do anything other than pass messages back and forth.
When a site inspector finally arrived on-site (approx 4 months after this saga began), he uses a drone to confirm the roof shape / dimensions, and assures that Tesla will almost certainly be able to do the panel upgrade at the same time (prior work load calc showed the house already at limit electrically and physically). However, weeks later and many periodic inquiries later, the electrical design team has somehow determined that a panel upgrade is not required (???) and passes on the message that the design team will NOT under any circumstances do any electrical panel upgrades unless the design team has determined that it is needed. Doesn't matter what the client is willing to pay...doesn't matter that the prior load calc submitted / reviewed by the city as part of the prior permit shows the ~60-year-old meter / panel cannot support solar without a panel ugprade...they simply will not do it. The Tesla site inspector who had come out even said Tesla might potentially get back into Wall Connector installations...but since then, I've heard (so far uncooberated) that Tesla is actually reducing their solar installation workforce in favor of onboarding more 3rd party electricians and installers. Tesla's current refusal to do the panel upgrade lends credence to the latter, unfortunately.
Two notes:
1. Why go thru all this effort? Several reasons: I know many people with solar, and without exception those who have solar from SolarCity and/or Tesla have all been very satisfied with the end result, and without exception those who have gotten solar from others have been very disappointed with the result (typically under-production, less-than-great electrical workmanship, very high pressure salespeople, etc). And, as a many, many, many time Tesla repeat customer, I want to believe. But at this point I am also somewhat considering how this turns out for her to be part of my investment research.
2. Why not solar roof? For myself - I really, really wanted Solar Roof - it had just been unveiled and looked amazing. However, I predicted it would take an unacceptable amount of time for me to actually be able to get Solar Roof, so I moved forward with solar panels. Given the many years which passed after my panels were installed before the first Solar Roof installation in my metro area occurred, and given the slow pace since then, it was clearly the right call for me. For my sister, the Solar Roof quote in 2023 was over 2.5 times the cost of a complete new roof + the maximum solar panels possible. Given all the circumstances, Solar Roof priced itself out, as the added value for her particular house could not even come close to justifying the 2.5x cost.
Mine was 3 yrs ago, and it was only a bit tricky. Mostly due to my config and insisting on batteries in garage. They pulled it off, but I think the whole process is 1/2 Tesla, 1/4 City, and 1/4 Installers. Any one of those can mess it up or cause delays. Our installers laid out the panels different from the docs but did manage to share my existing underground conduit, so participation and effort was very good. For reference purposes, our pool makeover and CyberDeck was more complicated, dragged out. Tesla was in and out. Highly recommend it if you can. The thought of a grid meltdown in the Az summer is enough on it's own to want your own power. I wish I had taken their recommended size as I went 60% of demand for the better ROI. Dumb move. Ya can't just tack on more panels, it's a whole new project.
100% concur with maximizing the size of the solar installation. The one and only time you *can* just tack on more panels is at original installation design time... Given the fixed costs of system design, roof inspection, permitting, installation team deployment to your residence, etc...the additional variable parts-and-labor to keep the crew onsite longer installing more panels is the part that gives the best ROI on the additional cost.
Mod: fortunately I barely had time to read TMC on the weekend/today, so I saw the beginning of the long discussion about FSD V12 and HW3/4/5
in this thread. I just moved 109(!) posts over. Please keep the discussion there.
teslamotorsclub.com
--ggr
in this thread. I just moved 109(!) posts over. Please keep the discussion there.
HW4 & HW5 Discussion
In other news- people keep being surprised higher resolution cameras produce better images. None of which tells us what resolution is sufficient for actual self driving of course. Yeah, computers see images totally different: And this is before raw photon count that will greatly improve this...
teslamotorsclub.com
FSDtester#1
Craves Electrolytes
109 posts before the Mod Axe? Must be an all time record.Mod: fortunately I barely had time to read TMC on the weekend/today, so I saw the beginning of the long discussion about FSD V12 and HW3/4/5
in this thread. I just moved 109(!) posts over. Please keep the discussion there.
--ggrHW4 & HW5 Discussion
In other news- people keep being surprised higher resolution cameras produce better images. None of which tells us what resolution is sufficient for actual self driving of course. Yeah, computers see images totally different: And this is before raw photon count that will greatly improve this...
Asleep behind the wheel I guess, especially with all that dough you get!!
This post will get the Axe for sure!!
Not sure if this is paywalled. In summary, another Cruise vehicle got into an accident in SF. Indications are that it tried to make a left turn from the middle lane (this is a one way street) and got hit by a car that was driving in the left lane.
I don't know whether this is good news or bad for us. On the one hand, Cruise having issues like this highlights how much better Tesla's solution is going to be. On the other hand, these incidents will make regulators and civilians more cautious about FSD and robotaxis.
I don't know whether this is good news or bad for us. On the one hand, Cruise having issues like this highlights how much better Tesla's solution is going to be. On the other hand, these incidents will make regulators and civilians more cautious about FSD and robotaxis.
GhostSkater
Member
Only me that gets a bit frustrated with stuff being moved out of here all the time? Some I do agree, but a lot I don't
We got the Elon V12 demo, a lot of talk on it, we all agree it's one of the big futures for Tesla, yet it's off topic on a investment thread?
I don't know for others, but a lot of other threads are completely overrun by those who don't think a lot of what Tesla is planning to do will come to fruition, TSLAQ and what not that I don't even bother to go there
And this message is on topic and shouldn't have been a PM because it's directly related to discussing Tesla and TSLA
We got the Elon V12 demo, a lot of talk on it, we all agree it's one of the big futures for Tesla, yet it's off topic on a investment thread?
I don't know for others, but a lot of other threads are completely overrun by those who don't think a lot of what Tesla is planning to do will come to fruition, TSLAQ and what not that I don't even bother to go there
And this message is on topic and shouldn't have been a PM because it's directly related to discussing Tesla and TSLA
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Yup, lots of Waymo shills in other threads who just ends their arguments with "but Tesla is L2 and Waymo is L4".
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
As likely as they are to remove cruise control from all cars.
I know they moved hw4 discussion to a different place no one will bother reading, so basically Tesla has pushed out FSD beta to all hw4 cars as of 20 mins ago. So no more crying and no more loss sales to hw4 customers.
GhostSkater
Member
I think it’s clear at this point, at least to me, that Elon was talking about V12 coming to Hardware 4.0 6 months after HW 3.0 gets V12
Honestly, I still don’t know what the hell Elon meant.
he meant “lagging” in performance, not in release dates
Elon is the consummate troll. He loves messing with us.
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