2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
It can be so disappointing when factory shutdowns slightly lower the numbers on ANOTHER RECORD QUARTER.
Pretty sure the legacy OEMs can only dream about having problems like this to contend with.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
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It can be so disappointing when factory shutdowns slightly lower the numbers on ANOTHER RECORD QUARTER.
Pretty sure the legacy OEMs can only dream about having problems like this to contend with.
I wonder if there have been any studies that track PHEV charging frequency and correlate with gas prices?All the statistics I've seen, and the majority of the anecdotal evidence, suggests that PHEV are seldom plugged in. Clearly there are some exceptions, but personally I think it is overdue to stop giving the benefit of the doubt. Many governments have come to the same conclusion and tapered/ended PHEV benefits and focussed them to BEVs.
Have you seen different statistics ?
Many People Aren't Plugging In Their PHEVs, According To Study
Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) are only effective if you keep them charged. Otherwise, they're just a gas-powered hybrid with harmful emissions.insideevs.com
Study: PHEVs aren't plugged in as often as regulators assume
Early plug-in hybrid adopters likely have more access to charging, while mainstream adopters can't be assumed to plug in as often, the study concluded.www.greencarreports.com
PHEV drivers don't plug in so often, and EPA is adjusting to it
The EPA is adapting emissions rules to the idea that in real-world use, plug-in hybrid drivers aren't plugging in as much as assumed.
Thousands of UK hybrids may have never been plugged in
According to the BBC, tens of thousands of fleet hybrids may have never been used properly.uk.motor1.com
Fleet-owned plug-in hybrids may never have been charged | Auto Express
Analysis of PHEV company cars, which were bought with subsidies, indicates drivers are running predominantly on petrolwww.autoexpress.co.uk
Why PHEV if you don’t plug it in?
The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV remains popular. Many people buy plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) overseas for the subsidy but never plug themevsandbeyond.co.nz
I'd imagine that numbers change when gas prices go up 50%.
That having been said, I do feel that PHEV's days are numbered obviously, and the sooner the better.
We still have equestrians... what will we call folks in the future who cling to the last mode of transportation for the nostalgia of it?ftfy
and I call them "Europeans"
Icemen?
[CUE: debate over if trains or individual robocars are the best mass transit solution...]
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Maybe a definitive answer will be surmised when both Robotaxis and the train are bringing employees to Giga Berlin.
Inner city to city? 100% trains. I haven't needed a car in 15+ years, and wouldn't trade my bikes/trains for a car even if it had FSD v44.5.
Every time I accept a ride with friends (to make them happy), I end up losing my time in traffic. PS: I know its a privilege (I live in Paris, France) but it's a way of life too and wouldn't be that difficult to rebuild countries designed for people (instead of cars)
NB: markets are closed today right?
Best is robocars and tunnels. But of course trains are easier to get permits for because politicians don't like new. (exception new taxes)
Andy O
Member
You missed the point. When you take a robotaxi by yourself, your time is your own to use as you choose. This differs from having to spend your time chatting with friends, with whom you apparently don't want to be.
It doesn't matter. The stats show that "most people don't plug in" PHEV is not true.
Even the misreported ICCT report doesn't say that most people don't plug in, it says of electric miles that "Specifically, the analysis finds that real-world electric drive share may be 26%–56% lower ... than assumed within EPA’s labeling program for light duty vehicles."
How people jump from 26%-56% lower to "most people don't plug in" is just by making *sugar* up.
philw1776
Member
Completely non-tech older neighbor with PHEV told me that he has only bought a half tank of gas in 6 months. Electric for most everything.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Wow, you did a great job of including a link which would help counter the statement you quoted, which is bolded above, by @Krugerrand.
Why is it that some people with strong convictions avoid providing examples of the data to support their argument?
This is what leads to these back and forth, he said / she said discussions where no resolution can be determined without supporting data being shown.
The last time he provided links I checked them. None of them corroborated his claims. It's a meaningless argument and a waste of time even for a weekend topic. Hopefully the mods help to end this trolling...
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
So in the past we have discussed the JPR007 valley of death graphic.
we've covered multiple issues with it. My first step at improving it was to fact check the historical data. I found widely varying numbers (and could find some that matched) but settled on using Cars from 2022 statistics | www.oica.net and prior years
The peak is in the same year (2017) but the scale is smaller because I excluded commercial vehicles. I'm not sure what OICA considers a commercial vehicle so that might have to be revisited.
I didn't bother fact checking the EV production numbers. I might revisit that also.
This is a first attempt at a new "valley of death" chart based on the OICA numbers. I've got what are likely very poor guesses for 2023 to 2030. I kept the 2025 as the low production year like JPR007 had it and just fudged the numbers until the curve looked interesting.
But if you would like to critique, I'll make it prettier once we settle on content.
we've covered multiple issues with it. My first step at improving it was to fact check the historical data. I found widely varying numbers (and could find some that matched) but settled on using Cars from 2022 statistics | www.oica.net and prior years
The peak is in the same year (2017) but the scale is smaller because I excluded commercial vehicles. I'm not sure what OICA considers a commercial vehicle so that might have to be revisited.
I didn't bother fact checking the EV production numbers. I might revisit that also.
This is a first attempt at a new "valley of death" chart based on the OICA numbers. I've got what are likely very poor guesses for 2023 to 2030. I kept the 2025 as the low production year like JPR007 had it and just fudged the numbers until the curve looked interesting.
But if you would like to critique, I'll make it prettier once we settle on content.
A counter-example: my neighbour has a hybrid Porsche, and I’ve only seen it charging when it was brand new because he was trying out his charger. That’s a couple of years ago.
Conclusion: we need statistics, not anecdotes.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Do you realize how much time you could have saved if you had just told us your gut feeling?
Taking time to put together a well thought out presentation to support the post really is not in the spirit of TMC.
Now, go stand in a corner for a ten minute time out and think about what you have done.
/s
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A great long-form tweet (er... X) from Farzad. Great read.
And an awesome takedown comparison of Highland versus German manufacturers (BMW, Audi, VW) by Lars. As he says, 'not even close.' Great watch.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
I'm beginning to see why the UAW is in an uproar with GM, Ford, and Stellantis.
Do those OEMs provide free train service for employees to get to work like Tesla does?
www.teslarati.com
Do those OEMs provide free train service for employees to get to work like Tesla does?
Tesla Giga Berlin promotes its free "Giga Train" shuttle for its employees
Tesla Europe has announced the newest addition to Gigafactory Berlin's amenities -- the "Giga Train," which can carry 400 people per trip.
www.teslarati.com
It feels like a lot of phev owners don't bother getting 240v/L2 installed, but rather content themselves with whatever they can get with provided adapter. My neighbor has a jeep occasionally plugged into the porch outlet so that's probably what they all do.
Stretch2727
Engineer and Car Nut
Shipping out CT even on a Holiday.
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