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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Why is nobody mentionung the obvious usp for tesla l2 - being inside the tesla Navigation and billing backend - the one that in the us most manufacturers agreed to embedd next year - so without hassling you could see a larger hotel with it's l2 chargers in the Navigation and use it seamlessly as superchsargers today

Hotels are destinations rather than stops so it's not going to help much, unless they're going to check charger availability and inform the driver so that if no chargers are available the driver can more easily choose whether to stop at a Supercharger before heading to the hotel.

The big USP of the Tesla L2 approach is that it's plug-and-charge L2, at least for Tesla owners, and now it should become plug-and-charge for others adopting NACS and joining the Supercharger network

Although it's Tesla's hardware, I don't think it's trying to push a full service. I think it's just trying to solve the problem of charging at MDUs by creating the cheapest, simplest system it can. The 1c/kWh billing fee isn't onerous but should cover the underlying cost of the system at scale.
 
Hotels are destinations rather than stops so it's not going to help much, unless they're going to check charger availability and inform the driver so that if no chargers are available the driver can more easily choose whether to stop at a Supercharger before heading to the hotel.
I believe that hotels will soon let you reserve a charger with your room. There will likely be an extra fee, but this will give the guest some confidence that he can charge up while sleeping. For road trippers it will be great to know that you won't have to visit a Supercharger first thing in the morning.
 
Let's examine each of these in order:
  1. Lower Margins:
    1. Models S/X price cuts were matched with FSD price cuts. If that increases the "take rate" from 10% to just 12% then the S/X price cuts are revenue neutral, and increase margins.
I don't get your math.

If the take rate is 10% on $15,000 FSD price that's worth $1,500 per sold car.
If it goes up to 12% on a $12,000 FSD then it's worth $1,440 per sold car.
 
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The days of free and low-cost L2 public charging are numbered. Things that are priced too low become over-used. The infrastructure becomes strained.
I stayed at a hotel with free L2 chargers; despite the local electricity rates being about $0.40/kWh it was free. Parking was $42/night. What was interesting was that there were at least a dozen Teslas in the lot to share the two chargers; a charger was available pretty much continuously. (The exception was when I plugged in I took the second one. When I finished charging and every subsequent time in the garage one or both were open.)

There is another parking garage nearby that has similar rates and a lot more chargers, and also essentially connected to a hotel. My hotel not having the charger would have lost them the parking as well as likely pushed me into the other hotel. Instead, they paid $10 for electricity and got over $600 out of me. Looking at it another way, ~10% of the cars in the garage were EVs, and if they all used $10 worth of electricity then the parking netted $1 less per car per day giving away the electricity, or they recover the electricity cost with just 2.5% more cars.
 
This may be the most quiet I recall this thread being on the night before production and delivery numbers. Seems like most expect a miss and a further beat down of the price, and hope that the cybertruck delivery event is soon and brings some positivity. Any other thoughts? Any other estimates besides 86,000?
👾👾👾👾👾👾👾👾
👾👾🔥 👾👾👾👾

🚀
🌏
 
OK, so going to a foreign country, (Vancouver, Canada), and being amazed at the absolutely incredible saturation of Teslas and calling it bullish is not sufficient for my post to remain in the big boy/girl/cat/Dawg investment thread? Maybe if I share my knowledge of battery tech, neural networks, and FSD advancements to come:

I got nothin'. See you in Off Topic Galore.
 
Discount? I'm listening to the audiobook I got from the library. Something like: "the best cost is no cost"?
Agreed, But I am "200th in line" for the audio book at my library (and they have 16 copies available) and will have to break down and use one of my Amazon Audible credits.
(BTW, I understand some crooked folks sign up for a free one month Audible trial period "steal" two books and quit at least they should stick around and pay for at least 2 months)
 
It has be a harrowing few days as I have been on a Tesla safari in the wilds of the Ozarks. Using my wits (so, essentially unarmed) and practically living off the land (no cell or internet coverage for days) I finally found an example of the elusive Tesla sharing a nesting ground with some creatures called STOLs.

The Tesla was shy, but I got a bit of it in a photo before it had hidden itself again among the brightly colored feathers.

I think it is only a matter of time before full infestation will take place and the Ozarks will be crawling with them.

ShyTesla.jpg


Okay, the weekend is over.

Now, back to fretting over the Q3 numbers and how the analysts interpret the tea leaves.
 
Then there's the corollary, when abundant renewable energy sourced cheaply becomes virtually free. Others here have researched more than I (@Artful Dodger ?), I can't remember off this happens in 10 or 20 years, but it will happen. Maybe in the medium term you're right, bit long term, this is one of the worst of Tesla's Teams IMHO.

Well, conventional thinking might apply Wright's Law in this situation, and predict that renewables will decrease in price by ~17% for every doubling in deployment of any particular energy technology. I however am not conventional in that respect, I am an advocate of "Information Theory".

To wit, last week I conducted a 2,700km round trip to visit family here in Canada. Total cost for charging? Zero. That's right, four L3 and seven L2 charging (3 full + 4 partial) sessions, all on free public chargers. But was it actually free? Clearly not! Indeed, I pay $14 Cdn per month for my Tesla's "Premium Connectivity" service giving access to certain public websites. Did I trade time for money? Sure, but then with Tesla "Camp Mode", I wouldn't actually have saved much travel time (perhaps 2 hrs total). And 2.7K kms in 99 hrs is still a pretty brisk pace INCLUDING visiting family.

So, "information" has become the new "fuel" in the 24½th 21st Century. Like renewables, information too becomes more abundant, hence less expensive, over time.

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Cheers!
 
Here's Joe's GigaTexas update video from today.

At about the 22 minute mark he zooms in to show a Model Y in the crash test facility with two crash dummies in the front seats.

Do you think they'll let us name them? I was thinking Gordon and Mark would be good names for these dummies?

Enjoy

But at least these dummies serve a useful purpose.
 
I don't get your math.

If the take rate is 10% on $15,000 FSD price that's worth $1,500 per sold car.
If it goes up to 12% on a $12,000 FSD then it's worth $1,440 per sold car.
My math tracks with yours.

Going from 10% to 12.5% take rate for FSD with a price drop from $15k to $12k gives you the same revenue per car, and since FSD is a software feature, does not affect COGS and therefore would give equivalent margins.

So the question of whether it helps the bottom line is where we are on the demand curve.

A price drop from $15k to $12k is a 20% price drop. Does a 20% price drop yield more than a 2.5% increase in take rate?

Factors in favor:

1. Purchasing software features like FSD do not affect eligibility for the US Inflation reduction act tax breaks.

2. We have seen FSD Beta get approved in a few additional countries this quarter.

3. FSD v12 demo and HW4 release shows more promise for future FSD capabilities. Many countries have seen FSD testers get hired.

4. FSD now available for HW4 cars.

5. City streets no longer listed as “coming soon” on the website.

6. Highest cost cars, where sales of FSD are most likely, saw a big price drop. These buyers likely have more discretionary money to spend on “nice-to-haves” like FSD (though this is a smaller percentage of sold cars).

Factors against:

1. FSD transfer is in effect this quarter, so existing customers with FSD will be transferring it to their new cars without any additional revenue to Tesla.

2. High interest rates, so luxury features like FSD less likely to be sold.

Given these in totality, I could see take rate for FSD increasing by more than 2.5% this quarter. Maybe increasing by 5%, which would mean revenue per car going from $1500 to $1800 and therefore increasing margins.

So I think it is quite possible that margins get a positive overall contribution in Q3 due to the FSD price drop, but I think the impact won’t be too significant.

It is likely Tesla will recognize city streets deferred revenue this quarter, though this will be a one-time positive impact so will be backed out by analysts.

I think Tesla needs to start reporting FSD take rate and demonstrating a positive trend before analysts start pricing these near 100% margin revenues into their models.

IMO Tesla’s numbers would see a huge improvement if Elon stopped treating FSD like some massive investment buyers are making on an autonomous future and instead just treated it as a normal feature add-on. After all, it’s a high-margin software feature.

$15k is a lot to swallow for a private buyer for a feature whose benefit as a robotaxi revenue stream is yet to be proven and not on the short-term horizon.
 
In my opinion the solution here for Tesla could be to offer two different FSD packages:

1) personal licence for personal use only
2) personal use + access to the Tesla RoboTaxi Network.

Going forward the Robotaxi license will be worth a significant sum, and will be able to be priced appropriately for margin on initial sale and profit share of future taxi revenue, meanwhile the personal license price can fluctuate and set itself at the "right" level to maximise individual take up and returns.
 
Tesla' is doing fine in France!

 
In my opinion the solution here for Tesla could be to offer two different FSD packages:

1) personal licence for personal use only
2) personal use + access to the Tesla RoboTaxi Network.

Going forward the Robotaxi license will be worth a significant sum, and will be able to be priced appropriately for margin on initial sale and profit share of future taxi revenue, meanwhile the personal license price can fluctuate and set itself at the "right" level to maximise individual take up and returns.
3. No personal FSD + RoboTaxi (where Tesla takes higher %)

Not looking good, strike impact I suppose... Ironically might give Cybertruck sales an extra boost.


Cybertruck reservation list is so deep, nothing can boost sales besides more manufacturing...