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All the discussion of the Roadster 202(X???) misses perhaps the single-most important reason (IMHO) to release it: Because they said they would. In fact, this applies to all the announced products Tesla has taken reservation monies for vs the endless discussion of the various products that Tesla could potentially make. To some degree, it's what causes some consternation when Tesla announces new products while not having delivered the products already announced many years ago.

In that frame of mind, here is a proposed priority order for the automotive side of Tesla:

1. CyberTruck delivery ramp over the next 12 months. This is only ranked #1 due to the impending launch and the expectation that within 6 months the CyberTruck can be manufactured on a true line (not just by hand), reasonably automated within 12 months.

2. Semi manufacturing on an automated assembly line within the next 12 months. As the 1 year anniversary of deliveries of hand-assembled semi trucks approaches, it is interesting that the quarterly report for 2022 Q4 mentioned the launch, listed it in pilot production, and included it in the disclaimer; 2023 Q1 and Q2 dropped the mention of the launch but kept the other two, and 2023 Q3 even excluded it from the disclaimer (most likely a typo, but still interesting). The sporadic bits of information which can be found don't portray a convincing image of an automated assembly line for significant manufacturing starting any time soon. There's precious little to even indicate material numbers have been hand-assembled since then on the existing line. Even in the worst-case scenario where for some reason Tesla has determined it is not ready for mass manufacturing, continuing to hand-assemble units would allow for greater internal learning / validations. These do not even need to be sent to external customers; Tesla can and should prioritize replacing their short-haul semis with Tesla semis ASAP; first for short routes, then for longer and routes as MegaChargers get deployed. When they are confident in the product and the automated assembly process, ship to external customers. But get building them again.

3. Roadster 2024 hand-built and delivered to external customers by Dec 31, 2024. These will likely never need to be built on an automated assembly line. The volume can be strictly limited, the price can be doubled and still sell out, etc. But a promise made is a promise to be kept.

To be clear: Yes, certainly plans can change...but unless and until Tesla removes these from the product roadmap, actually building the vehicles that they have announced, taken deposits / reservations on, etc, should be far higher priority than un-announced or announced-but-no-reservations-taken vehicles. The $25k vehicle will be nice, the robotaxi will be nice, and, yes, even a standard pickup truck body on an existing platform (S/X platform, perhaps) that could be built very quickly even if it doesn't have the towing / range / exoskeleton / extras of the CyberTruck would be nice. But deliver what has already been sold before anything else.
I see your point and, as a fan of Tesla, I agree. However, the mission should be the most important factor. If Tesla is able to ramp the less expensive vehicle soon and get more vehicles out to people, at the expense of roadster and other products waiting or ramping slower, then that's the way it should be.

... and I really would like a roadster

And I hope they don't double the price, even though it would still be a bargain, and I think you're right that it would still sell.
 
On the sub-subject of a lower end Roadster (for the lulz I'll call it little r roadster vs Big R Roadster, if they actually shipped those two variants with those names it would be hilarious), if the target is the Miata crowd, 8 second 0-60 is too slow, current Miata are reportedly 5.7s.

Might be interesting if they could do a different body on the 25k platform (different from the regular 25k 2 door) and still be fast enough to beat the Miata, Mustang, and Camaro in performance with a ~35k price target (would be slightly more expensive up front but lower TCO). Give it 3/Y tier interior at most, and maybe single motor but some of the performance tier stuff (model 3 sr is "fast enough", model 3 performance or even AWD is "too fast"). Make sure that aftermarket suspension upgrades are easy and give it a stock suspension that is good enough but not amazing.

Actually... Depending on what the 25k car looks like, maybe this is just the "2 Performance" trim. If it's fun to drive even without a convertible or t tops, it can still tackle the 30k "performance" car segment (i.e. Miata, BRZ, Mustang, Camaro, etc). But if we can squeeze in some flavor of convertible then that's great.

edit: I wonder if with megacastings and unboxed process whether it would be feasible to make a car that only needs the "roll bars" part of the upper structure to be sufficiently crash safe, such that the tradeoffs of convertible / T-tops vs regular top is just a case of which "roof module" is installed rather than needing extensive engineering (with mass tradeoffs) to be safe. All while not sacrificing build cost too much, of course.
 
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Lol

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All the discussion of the Roadster 202(X???) misses perhaps the single-most important reason (IMHO) to release it: Because they said they would. In fact, this applies to all the announced products Tesla has taken reservation monies for vs the endless discussion of the various products that Tesla could potentially make. To some degree, it's what causes some consternation when Tesla announces new products while not having delivered the products already announced many years ago.

In that frame of mind, here is a proposed priority order for the automotive side of Tesla:

1. CyberTruck delivery ramp over the next 12 months. This is only ranked #1 due to the impending launch and the expectation that within 6 months the CyberTruck can be manufactured on a true line (not just by hand), reasonably automated within 12 months.

2. Semi manufacturing on an automated assembly line within the next 12 months. As the 1 year anniversary of deliveries of hand-assembled semi trucks approaches, it is interesting that the quarterly report for 2022 Q4 mentioned the launch, listed it in pilot production, and included it in the disclaimer; 2023 Q1 and Q2 dropped the mention of the launch but kept the other two, and 2023 Q3 even excluded it from the disclaimer (most likely a typo, but still interesting). The sporadic bits of information which can be found don't portray a convincing image of an automated assembly line for significant manufacturing starting any time soon. There's precious little to even indicate material numbers have been hand-assembled since then on the existing line. Even in the worst-case scenario where for some reason Tesla has determined it is not ready for mass manufacturing, continuing to hand-assemble units would allow for greater internal learning / validations. These do not even need to be sent to external customers; Tesla can and should prioritize replacing their short-haul semis with Tesla semis ASAP; first for short routes, then for longer and routes as MegaChargers get deployed. When they are confident in the product and the automated assembly process, ship to external customers. But get building them again.

3. Roadster 2024 hand-built and delivered to external customers by Dec 31, 2024. These will likely never need to be built on an automated assembly line. The volume can be strictly limited, the price can be doubled and still sell out, etc. But a promise made is a promise to be kept.

To be clear: Yes, certainly plans can change...but unless and until Tesla removes these from the product roadmap, actually building the vehicles that they have announced, taken deposits / reservations on, etc, should be far higher priority than un-announced or announced-but-no-reservations-taken vehicles. The $25k vehicle will be nice, the robotaxi will be nice, and, yes, even a standard pickup truck body on an existing platform (S/X platform, perhaps) that could be built very quickly even if it doesn't have the towing / range / exoskeleton / extras of the CyberTruck would be nice. But deliver what has already been sold before anything else.

There is no way that delaying a mass market smaller car in favor of a sports car that will be produced in very limited quantities makes any sense. The $25k car wont be just nice, it will be by far the most important car for Tesla.
 
I think it will be a long time until Tesla will be ready to assume liability for Autopilot.

IMHO what they need now is being allowed to do as much as possible with Autopilot while the driver is responsible and alert, so the system can learn from take-overs. That´s what UNECE is working towards, hopefully to be finalized next year. (Just checked, UK is part of UNECE, too.)
Sounds like this bill is to overide UNECE with the software vendor taking liability.
 
Wonder how high Highland will go compared to Y - likely spike up because there was no 3 available for a few weeks and pent-up extra demand for new version, and settle at an equilibrium which will be hopefully higher than old 3..

The new M3 is really much much better than the old, so I expect it will sell better as well.
 
Lets be honest. ICE companies announce concept cars every week and they never get made. Once the CT and semi are both in serious numbers, Tesla will have shaken that 'broken promises' thing, apart from FSD, which feels closer than ever now.
Talking about honest, how many of those collected $50k deposits and kept them for years ?
 
All the discussion of the Roadster 202(X???) misses perhaps the single-most important reason (IMHO) to release it: Because they said they would. In fact, this applies to all the announced products Tesla has taken reservation monies for vs the endless discussion of the various products that Tesla could potentially make. To some degree, it's what causes some consternation when Tesla announces new products while not having delivered the products already announced many years ago.

In that frame of mind, here is a proposed priority order for the automotive side of Tesla:

1. CyberTruck delivery ramp over the next 12 months. This is only ranked #1 due to the impending launch and the expectation that within 6 months the CyberTruck can be manufactured on a true line (not just by hand), reasonably automated within 12 months.

2. Semi manufacturing on an automated assembly line within the next 12 months. As the 1 year anniversary of deliveries of hand-assembled semi trucks approaches, it is interesting that the quarterly report for 2022 Q4 mentioned the launch, listed it in pilot production, and included it in the disclaimer; 2023 Q1 and Q2 dropped the mention of the launch but kept the other two, and 2023 Q3 even excluded it from the disclaimer (most likely a typo, but still interesting). The sporadic bits of information which can be found don't portray a convincing image of an automated assembly line for significant manufacturing starting any time soon. There's precious little to even indicate material numbers have been hand-assembled since then on the existing line. Even in the worst-case scenario where for some reason Tesla has determined it is not ready for mass manufacturing, continuing to hand-assemble units would allow for greater internal learning / validations. These do not even need to be sent to external customers; Tesla can and should prioritize replacing their short-haul semis with Tesla semis ASAP; first for short routes, then for longer and routes as MegaChargers get deployed. When they are confident in the product and the automated assembly process, ship to external customers. But get building them again.

3. Roadster 2024 hand-built and delivered to external customers by Dec 31, 2024. These will likely never need to be built on an automated assembly line. The volume can be strictly limited, the price can be doubled and still sell out, etc. But a promise made is a promise to be kept.

To be clear: Yes, certainly plans can change...but unless and until Tesla removes these from the product roadmap, actually building the vehicles that they have announced, taken deposits / reservations on, etc, should be far higher priority than un-announced or announced-but-no-reservations-taken vehicles. The $25k vehicle will be nice, the robotaxi will be nice, and, yes, even a standard pickup truck body on an existing platform (S/X platform, perhaps) that could be built very quickly even if it doesn't have the towing / range / exoskeleton / extras of the CyberTruck would be nice. But deliver what has already been sold before anything else.
I agree with you. Now, here's Elon's priority:

1. Optimus.

2. Robotaxi

3. FSD. "What?" you ask, "how can Optimus and Robotaxi be ahead of FSD?" Elon considers it all but done, so his brain has moved on to other priorities while others can mop up FSD.

4. 25K Model. We know he grudgingly went along with this product until he saw the concept vehicle they showed him.

5. CyberTruck. See explanation on FSD, except this priority will rise as Elon has to step in and help solve problems with the ramp.
 
This is without Highland. First China delivery happened on the 7th.


So what Roland says is actually wrong?
Last week was the first full week of Model 3 Highland sales in China.
Strange, do you think that they sold almost 5k old 3 last week after not selling them for weeks?
Seems unlikely to me.

EDIT: This says that Tesla announced on Oct 26 on Weibo that deliveries of Highland had started. That would fit with the data in @piloloy´s plot.
 
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Troy’s Q4 estimate has gone up 8% from 449k to 487k.


I actually pointed out that his Q4 figure was barely higher than his Q2 figure by DM back in May.

I guess Tesla are only demand limited when they are shutting down factories for Highland mods…
487K is non significantly lower than 500K. I think they will be pushing to highlight the 2M pa. mark.
 
Strange, do you think that they sold almost 5k old 3 last week after not selling them for weeks? Seems unlikely to me.

Agreed, doesn't seem possible to sell any old inventory which appears to have been cleared out by mid-September. I think it's more likely that was just the 1st sale at that particular delivery center in Shenzhen.

BTW, pictures like this are one more reason why selling a Tesla sells more Teslas...

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Cheers!