Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[GhostSkater]

For everyone to watch the “huge fail” in a towing test and cooldown

TLDW: Cybertruck could go 160 miles towing a Model Y in the test conditions

On par with other EV trucks if not better, we need more side by side tests. If they figure out the charging curve we have a huge winner

 

[Stormy24]

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1747035106257023362?s=61

I should note that the Tesla board is great. The reason for no new “compensation plan” is that we are still waiting for a decision in my Delaware compensation case. The trial for that was held in 2022, but a verdict has yet to be made.

I put “compensation plan” in quotes, because, from my standpoint, this is primarily about ensuring the right amount of voting influence at Tesla.

If I have 25%, it means I am influential, but can be overridden if twice as many shareholders vote against me vs for me.

At 15% or lower, the for/against ratio to override me makes a takeover by dubious interests too easy.

I would be fine with a dual class voting structure to achieve this, but am told it is impossible to achieve post-IPO in Delaware.

 

[Thekiwi]

Hold on a sec.

Elon has been talking about robotics and Optimus from a Tesla perspective for a long time now. So it's safe to assume they are a part of Tesla for now or there will be some huge lawsuits for false presentation or something if it turns out they are not.

I know Tesla doesn't like patents but I believe they still get them.

So if Elon starts a new company wouldn't he have to start from scratch? Not being able to use anything that Tesla has already done.

You would assume so, but who at Tesla would actually do that? This board? Ha ha ha not a chance considering the way they have acted so far. Would the CEO of Tesla seek to protect the patents? Oh that’s Elon, not much chance he will direct Tesla lawyers to sue himself for patent infringement. Shareholders would be the only ones via a lawsuit.

even then, judging by this board, a lot of shareholders think it’s fine for Elon to behave like this. No pushback when he started xAI and took Tesla staff there. if tomorrow Elon announced he was shutting down the Optimus program, starting a new robotics company himself, offering all the Optimus team positions there - plenty of the people on this board would be like “yes, this is the way, that is the best thing to do, it’s the boards fault for not offering him a compensation package bigger than the GDP of many countries“

 

[Paul_SF]

Elon must have a crazy plan to want to have F.U. voting power. I'm all for it!

Maybe also he's got a plan to figure out how to get the REAL shares to show up, in case of a vote to oppose his 25% voting power, like he's saying? Wouldn't that be so nice for us and not so nice for other "shareholders".....

 

[Thekiwi]

That moment when you realize your CEO has been working for free for the last few years...

By “working for free” you mean getting the largest CEO compensation package in human history?

 

[MC3OZ]

So your fine if he said he’s going to stop working on new EV models at Tesla and start rival EV companies because he isn’t getting paid enough? How about a rival solar & power storage company as well? Maybe a rival robotaxi company for good measure. But he wants to stay CEO of Tesla of course as well.

Negotiation is the best way of resolving any difference of opinion.

I certainly don't want a highly motivated Elon competing against Tesla, or Elon dumping all of his shares in Tesla.

If Elon does leave, their is enough engineering talent in the company to complete all current projects and products. Nobody can force him to stay, it is a negotiation.

You can't conclude that he wants to stay CEO of Tesla.... that is part of what is being negotiated.

 

[Krugerrand]

TBH I am less keen for a repeat of the previous CEO compensation scheme since Elon bought Twitter. I'm actually glad he bought it, and think the turnaround is remarkable, but as a Tesla investor it is unarguably ANOTHER distraction for a CEO now managing:

• SpaceX
• Tesla
• Boring
• Neuralink
• X
• X.AI.

In fact that is TWO big new distractions, X.ai and X.com. If Tesla was walmart, I would be less fussed, and if SpaceX was walmart I'd be less fussed, but it feel ridiculous that neither being CEO of Tesla or SpaceX is a full time job, and thats without 4 other companies. I am a big fan of everything these companies are achieving, but there are limits to what any person can do. If there is a big disaster happening at GigaTexas on the day SpaceX launches astronauts or Starship, our CEO will be busy elsewhere. That is bad enough without the other distractions.
I think a sensible Tesla board would tie any future ambitious compensation plans to Elon stepping down from one or more of his existing positions. I definitely think both neuralink and the boring company would be fine now without him having anything more than an ownership stake.

If you want a better world for the spawn of your loin, a number of people besides Elon need to step up to the plate.

If Elon can’t start these companies and put them into self-sufficiency where other people simply need to not eff it up, then bring on the zombies.

Elon gathers the wood, starts the fire, stokes it until it’s a bonfire. All the other people have to do is keep throwing wood on.

This thought process that he has to stay in a full on CEO role to keep a company running efficiently and properly is why the human race is doomed. Elon literally just showed the whole world how to build a car company, a space company, an energy company, etc…. Nobody else on the planet can take up the reins and carry on!?

If you really believe what you posted, there is no hope because there isn’t a single other person on the planet turning the impossible into reality at a scale and pace that’s required to turn our destructive course around. Everyone else is intently focused on tearing him down, sabotaging mankind, making money off his back, telling and spreading lies, and being judgy.

 

[Thekiwi]

He finished the task early.

On that note, one of the last milestones of that plan ($14 Billion in annual EBITDA) is actually now potentially at risk of being a thing of the past due to the deteriorating margins over the last 12 months.

 

[raffiniert]

By “working for free” you mean getting the largest CEO compensation package in human history?

Oh yeah, and with all that money he's surely going to buy another island, mansions, like he did so many time before, right?

 

[Thekiwi]

Negotiation is the best way of resolving any difference of option.

I certainly don't want a highly motivated Elon competing against Tesla, or Elon dumping all of his shares in Tesla.

If Elon does leave, their is enough engineering talent in the company to complete all current projects and products. No one can force him to stay, it is a negotiation.

You can't conclude that he wants to stay CEO of Tesla.... that is part of what is being negotiated.

Oh good point - maybe he does in fact want out as CEO.

From his own personal financial perspective, he probably realizes he made a grave error by starting the Optimus project at Tesla. Now that it is obvious it’s likely to succeed, he has missed out on owning 100% of a company that could have been worth hundreds of billions.

But as the CEO of Tesla it was 100% correct to start this project at Tesla as it was a natural byproduct of the Vision AI been developed by the FSD team, and it is the duty of a CEO to manage the company in the best interest of shareholders (which includes developing future product lines adjacent to your current products).

 

[Thekiwi]

Oh yeah, and with all that money he's surely going to buy another island, mansions, like he did so many time before, right?

thanks for that delightful non-sequitor

 

[MC3OZ]

Oh good point - maybe he does in fact want out as CEO.

From his own personal financial perspective, he probably realizes he made a grave error by starting the Optimus project at Tesla. Now that it is obvious it’s likely to succeed, he has missed out on owning 100% of a company that could have been worth hundreds of billions.

But as the CEO of Tesla it was 100% correct to start this project at Tesla as it was a natural byproduct of the Vision AI been developed by the FSD team, and it is the duty of a CEO to manage the company in the best interest of shareholders (which includes developing future product lines adjacent to your current products).

Control over the future direction of AI is one consideration.

It may be possible to make the AI portion of Tesla a subsidiary with a different shares, hence a different voting arrangement?

The AI genie is well and truly out of the bottle, if Tesla doesn't do it, many others will, Elon can't control all of them.

Doing AI at Tesla is the fastest path to success, and that might help limit the power and influence competing AI solutions have.

Aside from control over AI, remuneration is his highest concern, probably because he also has big plans for his other companies.

 

[Singuy]

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1747035106257023362?s=61

I should note that the Tesla board is great. The reason for no new “compensation plan” is that we are still waiting for a decision in my Delaware compensation case. The trial for that was held in 2022, but a verdict has yet to be made.

I put “compensation plan” in quotes, because, from my standpoint, this is primarily about ensuring the right amount of voting influence at Tesla.

If I have 25%, it means I am influential, but can be overridden if twice as many shareholders vote against me vs for me.

At 15% or lower, the for/against ratio to override me makes a takeover by dubious interests too easy.

I would be fine with a dual class voting structure to achieve this, but am told it is impossible to achieve post-IPO in Delaware.

This tweet is telling us that the board already approved his compensation package pending lawsuit, and he's just sharing with us why they approved him for 25% ownership.

 

[Thekiwi]

This tweet is telling us that the board already approved his compensation package pending lawsuit, and he's just sharing with us why they approved him for 25% ownership.

Nope he said in follow up tweet that no discussion has taken place with board about a comp plan until case is decided,

 

[mongo]

Note your 18.8% number assumes he has no money from any other source with which to pay his taxes.

That might well be the "real" number we end up at in 2028 when he'll have to exercise them. But should he end up with any major net funds out of any of the other many companies he has major ownership shares in that would not turn out to be true and he could keep more of the Tesla shares if he wished.

(An IPO for starlink, or some major neuralink breakthrough for example)

Sure, Elon can always choose to buy shares, but that doesn't change the net gains from his comp plan. Paying $1B in taxes from cash is the same as paying $1B by selling shares and then buying $1B in shares.

 

[Thekiwi]

Control over the future direction of AI is one consideration.

It may be possible to make the AI portion of Tesla a subsidiary with a different shares, hence a different voting arrangement?

The AI genie is well and truly out of the bottle, if Tesla doesn't do it, many others will, Elon can't control all of them.

Doing AI at Tesla is the fastest path to success, and that might help limit the power and influence competing AI solutions have.

Aside from control over AI, remuneration is his highest concern, probably because he also has big plans for his other companies.

But he’s already started another AI company (xAI) to develop AGI. That he fully controls.

 

[Tony73]

For everyone to watch the “huge fail” in a towing test and cooldown

TLDW: Cybertruck could go 160 miles towing a Model Y in the test conditions

On par with other EV trucks if not better, we need more side by side tests. If they figure out the charging curve we have a huge winner

I think a model Y is more aerodynamic than the typical towing load. Let’s see the same test with a boat or horse trailer.

 

[Singuy]

I think a model Y is more aerodynamic than the typical towing load. Let’s see the same test with a boat or horse trailer.

However a typical boat/trailer combo is 1/3 the weight of a Model Y.

 

[Usain]

Perhaps Elon knows the Q4 numbers and knows he is playing from a position of strength?

This ^^^

 

[2Pearls]

lol at the thumbs down repsonses. Delusional.

”I am not comfortable growing Tesla to be a leader in AI & robotics without having ~25% voting control. Unless that is the case, I would prefer to build products outside of Tesla“

The dude is straight up saying he is refusing to do his job unless he gets tens of billions of dollars.

I’ve already posted in the past how it was very inappropriate & contradictory that he started a rival AI company (that poached Tesla talent) while also simultaneously claiming Tesla was an AI company. Now finally he has come right out and said it.

And comparing his own shareholding to fund managers stakes and asking why they don’t come to work? What a complete putz.

This X post is one for the history books.

EXACTLY, I am all for Elon getting a good compensation package, HOWEVER, he is the one who crushed the stock by 65%, not thinking of his shareholders, selling stock on the open market to support Twitter/X and, as someone else stated already on X, now he is UNWILLING to help Tesla be a leader in AI & Robotics if he doesn’t get a 25% voting control….he IS CEO and should always be looking to maximize shareholder value. Elon has stated many times that Tesla is the leader in real world AI & Robotics. So, now, he doesn’t want Tesla to be a leader…that goes against his job direction to grow shareholder wealth… and he will not do this if he does not get 25% voting control…that is BS. If you are no longer comfortable carrying out that mission, it may be time for you to step aside so others can lead us and the shareholders
to the promised land. Otherwise, you’re just holding Tesla hostage to your whims.
And, maybe if he wants those 25% voting rights, he should have in his clause no more texting or retweeting anything. Be CEO focus on TESLA!